Rasa not so sayang?
October 2, 2007 by unspun
(Update: Unspun, uncharacteristically, did not go through the papers this morning. It appears that the problem is even more serious as the matter has been brought before parliament. This is an excerpt of a report from The Jakarta Post:
The House on Monday urged an immediate response from the government to Malaysia’s use of the traditional Indonesian song Rasa Sayange in its “Truly Asia” tourism campaign.
House of Representatives member Hakam Naja of the National Mandate Party (PAN) said if the government could prove the song belonged to Indonesia, Indonesia should sue the Malaysian government.
“The government needs to check on its origins, whether it’s from Indonesia or not,” the deputy chairman of House Commission X overseeing education and tourism was quoted as saying by detik.com newsportal.
Rasa Sayange is believed to have originated in Maluku, where it has been sung for generations by people to express their love for the environment. (rst of story here)
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Is a cultural flap between serumpun countries Malaysia and Indonesia in the works?
Unspun’s business partner today told me of a radio broadcast talking about the Rasa Sayang Malaysia site, which is Malaysia’s answer to e-marketing itself to the world.
According to the radio program, the site’s comments section has been closed down because many Indonesians have been writing in to complain of Malaysia’s appropriation of the Rasa Sayang tune to boost its own image.
Ever the skeptic Unspun went to the site and clicked on the “comments” hyperlinked. Nothing happened! This suggests that the radio announcer may be right.
This all set Unspun’s head spinning about Malaysian culture and how sometimes Malaysia goes so hard to create a culture of its own that the results become ersatz. Consider, for instance, what sometimes happens when Malaysians get an invitation to attend a formal Malaysian occasion: The dress code is usually specified as “Malaysian Batik.” Not just any batik but “Malaysian Batik.
This may work well in other countries but not in Indonesia, home of the batik. The batik here, from Solo, and Pekalongan are exquisite, beautiful and full of history (for more information on Indonesian batik try my friend’s blogsite here. Compare it to the Malaysian batik, and you’d see the difference. Wavy lines that a five year old could have drawn over satiny fabric that’s good for showing off the spare tyres of middle aged men. Amoeba would have more culture.
And it is always an embarrassment when Malaysia culture shows are staged here. What can we show them that they do not have? Wayang Kulit? Satay? (OK, ganted Unspun likes Malaysian satay a lot over Indonesian ones but its hardly a Malaysian invention is it?) A Malaysian minister scolding bloggers goblok? Unspun’s written about it here and here.
But the point here is not to trash Malaysia; rather it is to suggest that it should perhaps find more creative ways of expressing its multi-racial culture that befits a nation 50 years in the making with lots of creative and smart people.
Back to the possible flap on Rasa Sayang. Is the tune Indonesian? Unspun is no authority on musicology and would like to hear from any authoritative persons out there.
This has the hallmarks of an issue that may escalate. If the radio announcer was right then the Malaysian authorities have a task on their hands to manage this issue before it snowballs into a public flap with nationalistic sentiments inflamed on both sides of the straits. Perhaps the Malaysian Tourist Board’s new PR consultant has good advice on how to handle the issue?
(Readers please note: This may shape up to be a emotive issue so let’s all work toward making this a discussion rather than a catfight. It’s OK to express opinions but try to refrain from name calling and emotive language. If you feel someone should o should not do something, say it and say why. Other than that, debate all you want!)
fyi…”rasa sayange”–a maluku folk song–was “introduced” by a number of senior indonesian navy officers to a larger audience in the western part of indonesia in late 50s. those seamen, in the old days, were practically the only ones with unlimited access to the eastern part of the country. they were the ones who vigorously nurtured the idea of indonesia as one united republic, by among other things, introducing a number of folk songs and dances from the east in the hope that all indonesians–from sabang to merauke, as they said–would be, culturally, familiar with each other.
like any other folk songs, of course it was difficult to identify the composer of “rasa sayange”. this, of course, does not necessarily mean that it belongs to “anybody” even if this “anybody” falls into the category of “saudara serumpun”…
Huhhh…Malaysia. The Trouble maker for Indonesia!
Unspun: Name calling if without substantiation. Please substiantiate
Malaysia lageee…. cape deh dengerin berita dari negara ini ….
Bagaimana bisa kita hormati kalau kelakuan kayak “maling” ….
Untuk orang Indonesia, tolong jangan berkunjung ke negara ini…. masih banyak negara lain yang lebih menarik dari Malaysia …. Gw sendiri udah pernah ke KL, sumpah deh gw gak bakalan lagi berkunjung ke negara “Katro” kayak gini ….
Kalau anda tetap berkunjung kesini berarti anda ikut melestarikan kebudayaan maling sesuai dengan motto MTB ” Visit Malingsia 2007, Truly Maling in Asia …” Hahahaha…..
Hmmpphh… just heard about this too from my father this morning and my reaction was… “again?”
Bapak, Permisi pakai story dalam blog saya.
Wah! kalo pemintaan dari Mas Rocky pasti bisa!
Hot news, indeed!
I’m an Indonesian, and honestly yesterday when I first heard and saw the ad, I feel sad and angry at the same time because Malaysia claim this song as theirs. See the language used in the song, that’s not a malaysian language (the use of ending ‘-e’ in rasa sayange is common in eastern indonesia, so the word ‘nona’, and also the rest lyrics of the complete song). To use it is one thing, but to claim it is a very different matter!
Both country–Indonesia and Malaysia–used to sing this song a long long time ago together in a TV show (if I’m not wrong called Titian Muhibah). And I remember that at the end of the show Indonesian sing this song and the Malaysian followed with text in their hand (because they were not familiar with this song). So, why not admit that this song is not an original malaysian song… say it from Ambon/Manado, if don’t like to say it from Indonesia.
But, above all.. mari saling berbagi rasa sayang.. Indonesia, Malaysia, who ever you are.. rasa sayange.. rasa sayange..
Cheers,
Made
Terima Kasih, bro!
All this while, I thought Rasa Sayang eh was a Singapore song. Like Di Tanjung Katong airnye biru …
Idiot_Malay lageee … take a deep breath, relax dong. Inikan bulan ramadan.
Indonesia harus bertindak! nggak cukup dong dengan berkeluh kesah doang … Malaysia memang selangkah lebih maju dalam mengeksplorasi dan mempromosikan aset bangsa mereka - sorry, maksudnya aset bangsa kita - seharusnya Indonesia protes resmi. Rasa Sayang dari Hongkong ?! pleaseee ……
Bung Rosli,
Walaupun “sinis”, toh pendapat bung Idiot_malay ada benarnya juga….
Coba deh anda tinggal 1 bulan saja di KL dan pusing-pusing di semenanjung… Loe bakalan tahu deh siapa sebenarnya mereka, khususnya melayu malaysia … Mereka ngerasa dirinya paling hebat dan kayaknya sih udah kehilangan identutas melayunya …. Lebih lucu lagi mereka cas cis cus pake bhs Inggris jika kita ajak omong bhs melayu ….
Satu lagi, mereka (terutama RELA), prejudice amat ama orang Indonesia (mereka sebut kita Indon) seolah-olah kita-kita semua ini adalah pelaku kriminal semua yang bisa mereka perlakukan seenaknya…
Gw hanya bisa urut dada aja .. Padahal dipihak lain mereka sangat memuja-muja lagu-lagu dan sinetron dari Indonesia seperti Dewa, So7, KD, Samson, KerisPatih etc ……
Sejujurnya.. seni budaya kita lebih kaya dan beragam dari mereka, So apa yang loe bisa lihat jika berkunjung ke sana ? Nothing and No added Value for you … Jika ingin lihat gedung-gedung modern di Jakarta juga banyak ….. hahahaha…
Satu lagi yang membuat gw sangat miris adalah keberhasilan pemerintah mereka meng-”indoktrinasi” rakyatnya, terutama yang Melayu dengan cara “pengendalian yang sangat sempurna” atas isi “media massa” disana .. (kayak di negara “otoriter” dan “komunis” aja ….)
Gw sendiri sampe sekarang masih gak ngerti kok mereka bisa jadi arogan tapi sekaligus juga terpesona dengan hasil seni budaya kita …
Lho kok jadi Curhat …. Udahan dulu ya …… Hahahaha…
malaysia… cobalah cari esensi budayamu apa… exploit the essence of your own culture gitu… jangan sampai nanti ada yang ngeledek.. “malaysian culture? what culture?”
get my point, bro?
saya lihat banyak komentar yang dilontarkan di atas adalah berdasarkan emosi yang tidak stabil yang saya kira bukan didasarkan kpd pemikiran yang matang dan rasional
lagu ni sebenarnya adalah lagu warisan etnik melayu di nusantara. oleh itu, ianya tersebar menerusi warisan ke seluruh nusantara yakni malaysia, indonesia, singapura dan brunei. jadi adalah tidak wajar suatu entiti etnik dimiliknegarakan atau dinasionalkan
saya ingin tegaskan disini, malaysia tidak pernah mengatakan bhw lagu ini adalah milik negara ini, namun lebih bertegas kepada lagu warisan serumpun yakni nusantara dan kiranya ianya adalah lagu indonesia, apa yang perlu dilakukan adalah membuktikan siapa penciptanya dan adakah ianya telah dipatenkan.
Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
“Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia
Idiot_Malay: “Untuk orang Indonesia, tolong jangan berkunjung ke negara ini”…saya fikir kenyataan begini tak perlu kerana hanya membuktikan kebodohan anda. persoalannya jika tidak mahu orang indonesia datang ke malaysia, kenapa ada kebanjiran serius masyarakat indonesia di malaysia? saya cabar sila jawab…
Mr.bambang: “Huhhh…Malaysia. The Trouble maker for Indonesia!” sesiapa saja boleh buat kenyataan sebegini tetapi persoalannya adakah mereka berfikir? kalau malaysia sememangnya menyusahkan indonesia, di mana kami letakkan tanggugjawab ingin membantu saudara serumpun ketika bencana?? saya cabar sila jawab…
jikalau sejarah kedua negara dinilai, malaysia lebih mengambil sikap toleransi. jika diikutkan mahu saja menyuruh kerajaan indonesia membayar pampasan kepada semua rakyat malaysia yang terkorban semasa Konfrantasi indonesia. kononnya mahu menubuhkan indonesia raya, tapi atas dasar paksaan terhadap orang lain untuk menerima pemerintahan sendiri. fikir-fikirkanlah…
dasar Kutu Kupret… gak punya budaya.. jangan2 gak puya kemaluan..
First batik, then wayang, angklung..And now malaysia’s stealing Indonesian traditional song also?? Shame.. You guys are desperate for an identity aren’t you. For Indonesian government.. Shame, when are you gonna stand up and protect our copy rights?
We really shouldn’t blame malaysia for stealing our traditional song, considering their people can’t even write or compose any decent song whatsoever. So pathetic.
Batik and wayang kulit are the masterpiece traditions from the eastern states of malaysia that already existed by generations. it differs greatly in culture with the so-called indonesian versions. i think the only thing u guys can do is mumbles but nothing really can come out of it. regarding angklung, it is a traditional musical instrument passed on through generations by chinese descendants in malaysia.
so, hey everybody can claim but can u prove any?? the answer is no so mumbling is only a WASTE of time. if our people can’t compose any good songs whatsoever, then why got malaysian songs circulating in ur music industries?? haha u guys are so pathetic while talking without fangs…
regarding indonesian recent upsurge in musical industries, don’t u guys know that in the early 70s that u guys don’t even have any good songs, so most of ur songs were direct interpretations of malaysian songs ie search and from west “the beatles”!! now this seemed to be so usually heard, the copy cats argue that others are so huh???
Shame on guys too, u can’t achieve any on economic ground so u desperately giving away ur economic sector to world bank coz uguys can’t even take care of ur own pockets, is it?? militarily uguys are underforced so u looked upon US for help, hey i oso pity u that u can’t even take care of ur own bussinesslah! sending away F16 and whatsoever for sipadan island, at the end uguys lost sipadan at international court. u are so famous with ur tin kosong thing, but really nothing really came out of it, just mess…
wah, orang malaysia emang nyebelin!!! semua dicolongin. bukti kalo bangsa mereka sama sekali nggak kreatif dan berbudaya. cuma untuk bikin jingle iklan aja, mereka cari-cari pengarang dari indonesia. bahkan sinetron di tv mereka juga bikinan script writer indonesia. its true! terusnya mereka ngaku-ngaku kalo itu buatan mereka. bah! bahkan suku bangsa mereka aja asalnya dari sumatera. mereka nggak punya penduduk asli kayak kita.
jadi, buat temen-temen sesama indonesia… ayo dong tunjukin nasionalisme kita dengan lebih INDONESIA.
kamarul said: “if our people can’t compose any good songs whatsoever, then why got malaysian songs circulating in ur music industries??” haha u guys are so pathetic while talking without fangs…
pak kamarul, fyi, lagu2 Siti Nurhaliza yang ngetop di Indonesia diciptakan oleh PONGKY of Jikustik, musisi INDONESIA.
Sesudah lagu ‘Isabella’ dan kemudian CT, I could not reckon any of Malaysian musician got famous in Indonesia. We’re not really fond of Malay songs I believe…and we had enough great bands/singers for our industry.
have you read the response by your nation to this Rasa Sayang issue ? they said, ” Let those INDON have back their song along with 4 million illegal workers here” well, Its a bit offensive I guess.
Thanks !
I think the main problems are … lack in creative and ethics … This is a big ashame if formal institution like Malaysia Tourism Board (MTB) did it …..
If they smart, MTB can make a contest or something, spend the money (they have much money to do this), showcase the Malay rock or maybe introduce Iban songs any day.
bodoh punya bangsa indon , pasal ni pun nak kecoh , datang malaysia bikin jenayah lagi nak banyak cakap .. dasar indon goblok
indon bising kalau pembantu rumah mereka kena dera tapi kalau pembantu indon bawa lari anak tuannya , dera anak tuannya ada orang malaysia tunjuk perasaan bakar bendera indon
indon goblok ..majukan le negara kamu jangan nak kecoh , lu lagi bising pasal artis kamu tapi bukan kah artis kamu cari makan kat sini
INDON GOBLOK GONJOL
tulisan idiot-indon gonjol macam sapi ..
Kalau anda tetap berkunjung kesini berarti anda ikut melestarikan kebudayaan maling sesuai dengan motto MTB ” Visit Malingsia 2007, Truly Maling in Asia …” Hahahaha…..
…………..
hahahaha yang jadi maling indon ni le .. datang malaysia jadi pencopet kasi pecah rumah
indon .. “truly maling “
Datuk Kamarul yang terhormat (terpaksa dihormat)
i don’t care about who wrote “Rasa Sayange”. Alasan anda adalah lagu itu berasal dari malay dan menyebar ke indonesia. Nah jika anda tahu lagu itu juga menyebar ke indonesia dan (apalagi) sudah membumi di indonesia harusnya pemerintahmu itu mengerti dong kalo indonesia merasa memiliki lagu itu. lagian liriknya aja Maluku banget gitu lohh..
Masalah angklung, anda ini lucu banget lho. lha anda tahu angklung itu dari cina kok diklaim juga punya negara mu. Dasar pemerintahmu itu yang aneh.
masalah batik. anda bilang yang anda klaim itu batik malaysia. beda dengan batik INDONESIA. Lha kalo gitu klaimnya batik malay donk. kalo batik doang.. di indonesia juga ada batik solo, pekalongan, jogja. Yang spesifik gitu lohh. kalo anda klaimnya batik, itu berarti batik indonesia juga termasuk
lalu anda jangan ungkit2 masalah ligitan dan sipadan. asal anda tahu aja. waktu konflik itu timbul, kami orang indonesia ingin sekali menghabisi nyawa kalian bangsa malay. Kalo presiden kami nggak sabaran, sudah dia kirim dukun santet dayak ke semenanjung penang. bersyukurlah kalian ornag malay, Sukarno sudah mati. jika dia masih ada, kita jamin, malay akan kita ganyang.
sodara serumpun f@#&k!!!
yudas
apa kamu mau serang malaysia … pakai apa buluh runcing hahaha
mau lepas selat melaka naik apa … rakit pisang ..kena ombak kamu semua lemas .. dasar bangsa goblok selalu cari isu remeh , senjata kamu semua sudah usang lagi mau serang kami .. baik bagi rakyat supaya tak kebuluran …
apa kalau kamu mau serang kamu ingat kami diam diri , cobalah le …
sapa mau serumpun dengan bangsa sakai …
indon mmg banyak emosi
pasal So7,samson,radja n etc pun nak kecoh
itu hiburan..so tak kisahla dari mana pun
to kamarul
mmg lagu rasa sayang tu lagu nusantara
indon pandai2 je nak claim diorg punya
negara ja besar..tapi ngak punya apa2
angklung pun bising..kami org malaysia pun main la..kami pun ada batik..
aku tau kenapa indon jeles dgn malaysia
kerana mereka tidak mampu mempromosi semua ini..malaysia buat promosi bising..indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..
lepasni pun ada lagi kot..
kami ngak rugi apa2 kalau seluruh warga kami keluar indon.tapi TKI indon akan merana dinegara sendiri kerana negara yg mundur..
kami boleh ambil TKI dari bangladesh,myanmar,thailand,pakistan,india..
alhamdulillah..negara kami syurga pekerjaan
pasal SO7, radja , samson pun bising
aku dan kawan-kawan aku minat metallica , green day , gnr .. amerika tak bising pun
eleh indon .. itu aje dia da selain tu kepapaan , kebuluran aje
ini indon tiap tiap tahun eksport asap ke malaysia lagi nak kecoh
kalau asap tu boleh modified jadi barang lain mau dia marah pulak …. dasar goblok
shit, dunno what those myASSians are talking about.
you’re using AMBONESE FOLKLORE SONG as your “truly asia” campaign. You guys from myASSia studied geography in your elementary school ey? AMBONESE or ppl from MALUKU is Indonesia’s territory. so AMBONESE FOLKLORE SONGS are belong to INDONESIA. NOT myASSia.
quote from my blog
“bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” - “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”
well yes now think bout that.
respect is the most expensive thing a? and malaysians (myASSians) doesnt seem to have that. poooor thing for such a ‘big’ country. did i say big? yeah right bigggg. :p
oh yeah, english please.
now i say…nobody really can answer my questions…all uguys do is becoming more and more emotional and irrational
i didn’t say this song was from malaysia, i said its malays culture…malay is an ethnic not a nation…u can have malays in malaysia, indonesia, singapore, brunei or even in south africa. its a diverse and international concept!!! what im talking about is uguys are making an ethnic entity as a nation’s entity which is totally wrong and absurd. it can never be like that, u are the ones stealing it…u denied other people who have their rights as malays for accessing it..
now this is not the first time happened…history shows jews from all over the world trying to deny the palestinians right for jerusalem!!! yes jerusalem is the origin of all jews but can u force an ethnic entity toward a nation??? u cannot and when it happens, it is the serious crime against humanity that history can ever witnessed…
now im not saying that uguys are the same as the jews but lets put it like this…uguys are taking the similar road as them…and it is very dangerous!!! An ethnic entity can never been forced to be a nation entity coz it will deny other peoples rights
what uguys can think of is only war and attack this and that country if u are not happy…what are u??? bibarians??? even though u wanna be ones…id say in this modern days… u are the ones who will lose a lot!!! look at timor leste…u bibarians just solve problems by arms and confrontations, and at the end what happened??? what about acheh and other problematic regions do you have??? gonna go the same way also huh???
uguys really have a very bad policy on foreign and domestic affairs…not to mention ur economic and social which are arranged haphazardly. well then if u are so proud of your culture and geopolitics condition, it doesn’t really can’t help much on ur other sectors, does it???
u said we don’t respect other cultures do ya??? now i wanna u prove from somewhere does da malaysian batik that we introduce to da international level are the same as indonesians??? no..its totally different!!!! batik is the general term that we describe these kind of fabric, and what really differentiates its origin is their pattern!!!! we are not taking any of ur indonesian batik pattern, we have our own batik pattern…
this is a simple example….cigarettes originated from america but hey now u can get dozens kind of cigarettes from all part of the world including that gudang garam of urs…. now would we say u copy cat other peoples culture??? the hell no coz cigarette is the general term and what really differ is the brand that shows the origin lah
i think even if this simple principle uguys cannot understand…i would know what level of thinking are u at….uguys can carry on mumbles, threat us whatsoever…u can never stop us from doing whatever we have the right to do…and we will continue doing it whether uguys like it onot
at the end of the day…of course it will be a sad day for u….
Dear Kamarul,
A Malay in Malaysia is defined as: (1) a person who is a Muslim of the Sunni branch of Islam of the Shafie mazhah (school) of thought, (2) having both or one of the parents as Malays, (3) habitually living according to Malay culture and customs including having Malay as a mother tongue, and (4) parents or ancestors from any part of Malay world but having lived in Malaysia on or before Malaysia day.
Refer to above definition, what do you mean as Malay culture ? It is still unclear for me ….
pasal SO7, radja , samson pun bising
aku dan kawan-kawan aku minat metallica , green day , gnr .. amerika tak bising pun
eleh indon .. itu aje dia da selain tu kepapaan , kebuluran aje
—-
Pak Cik, kamu salah contoh dari banyak orang melayu yang saya temui di KL sini…
Selalu cakap inggris dan ingin sekali jadi orang puteh…. Tapi sayangnya cuman kulit luar aja yang ditiru …. jadilah Mat Rempit .. Hahahaha…
Hwahahahahaha..Sorry..I can’t stop laughing. Malay language is so hilarious. No wonder they adore and use our language there.Hahahaha.. Hey goblok gonjol, you made my day with your uneducated language.
ramadhan… mari menahan diri dan tidak saling memaki…Unspun, I’ve never been to malaysia so I can’t help with you request
but surely I like my country, as it is.
pejuangan said:
indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..lepasni pun ada lagi kot..
pejuangan, do you realize ? siapa saja tersangka pelaku bom itu ? mereka mengaku ditraining di Malaysia! Bahkan tersangka bomber di Indonesia yang paling dicari kemarin (dr Azhari) pun berdarah Malaysia!
Sorry for bringing up this delicate matter, but please dont start with this bomb thing. Many people get killed and our nation suffered and mourn with the world since then for the loss of so many souls.
Peace!
ps: with Rasa Sayange, it is Indonesian loss that does not guard carefully its asset, so just be ready from now and jangan sampai terulang lagi. I’ve heard that JAHE pun sudah dipatenkan Jepang…Indonesia, take care of your assets & heritage!
PERANG SAJA….KAN LAGI TREND!…
Wahai teman2ku dari Indonesia…katakan saja anda mahukan royalti nya! mau kann??!!…
50/50 ??! 60/40 ??! ato gimana??! yahh jangan kawatir! tenang saja semua bisa di atur kok!…pokok uang kannn??…hi hi
Jangan gadoh! Apa la.. govt nak alihkan perhatian rakyat dia dengan nasionalism la.. Malaysia pon sama, everytime ada big issues internally, we start to shoot to singapore. Furthermore, kan heritagenya sama both countries, kalau tidak masakan org KL macam org gila pergi Bandung shopping sampai senget kapalterbang. The problem now lies with Malaysia Tourism Board sbb didnt check the facts carefully first. Idiots. Regarding the TKI yg banyak buat onar di Malaysia, what can you expect? From 150 mil orang, mestilah percentage yg jahat ada n jadi besar no dia ..
Korang gila nak perang… 26 juta ngan 150 juta… dahla sket, cina ngan inda sure lari dulu, yg melayu takde duit dok nganga.. yg org UMNO ade kat australia dah… bodoh ape korang
well then, when we talk about malay race in the world which includes malaysia, indonesia, singapore, brunei, south africa and other nations that have malay comunities, for God’s sake does it seemed rational for u firdausj to use the definition in a constitution of a nation??? it is absurdly weird for u to think of that coz it doesnot make any sense. the definition in the constitution of a nation only applies for that single nation and not for the whole archipelago lah… even high schoolers can think about this becoz ur totally out of the context!!!!
i would say a call for a war is outrageous and inhuman. any differences should be settled through a negotiated solution based upon common ground, laws and facts. wake up lah, this is not those ice age when people always go to war and so, be matured lah. talking english does not actually means that my mother tongue is technically unacceptable…but u know we have to respect those in the world that do not understand this language lah.
now if u wanna to protect ur heritage please go on but those that u cannot prove which is urs, please let it go…don’t steal something which is supposed to be the heritage of an ethnic to be a heritage of ur nation and u denied other peoples’ right.
when we talk about offensives gestures, its a very objective matter to be defined. both sides say both sides are practically offensive, so to call it as a common base for accusations are totally unacceptable. unless u talk about facts and laws, it is more rational and more acceptable…
i re quote again:
“Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
“Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia
does this statement really showed that factually and based on laws as the common ground that the song is actually does not belong to indonesia. hey this is not a malaysian that i quote but an indonesian same as uguys. but the glaring difference between him and u is that he talks based on facts and law but u is based on ur emotions and its irrational
i would have had only a single indonesian or anybody that can really give me a prove somewhere that his statement is wrong…but then we will have to argue again later…so far NOBODY seemed to have challenged my facts and arguments well enough…
Dear kamarul,
i don’t know what level of education you have, but obviously cigarettes can’t be analogied with batik in this case. Batik is a culture, while cigarette is NOT. And yes we are all aware of the crisis our country is facing, but at least we don’t need to steal anything from other countries. There are enough problems already and the last thing we need is a neighbour claiming our traditional cultures are theirs. The song “Rasa Sayange” origins from Indonesia (the language says it all) but Malaysia obliviously used it as a campaign to promote their country and that’s what started this conflict (again). They could at least mention the real origin of the song. But what’s their response to it when it’s brought up to the media? They talk all this shitshat about other things irrelevant from the real case. Stealing that you mention by uneducated Indonesians is unquestionably illegal and intolerable, but how about stealing other country’s culture by “royalties” and a nationwide government? Can you understand that analogy?
But thanks for explaining that batik pattern difference, i hope that’s true. I’m just hoping that we legalize kebaya as our national costume real soon before “someone” steals it again.
1. Nobody can really answer your Q?
2. Now u said AMBONESE are part of MALAYS culture? Maybe you don’t even know what does AMBONESE look like, dude. :p oh ya, AMBONESE live in INDONESIA and MALUKU island is in Indonesia. So, whatever culture they have, it belongs to INDONESIA
3. No comment about jews since its irrelevant.
4. What is bibarians? U mean barbarians? Listen mate, INDONESIA HAS 17,508 islands, myASSia only have 99. Gee, shut up, u don’t even any idea how hard it is for us to maintain all those islands. And yeh, what is haphazardly?
5. Batik, how bout u open this first, smartass, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batik Its an ancient tradition of Indonesians
6. Cigarette. Lol. People don’t call their product cigarette right? Unlike Malaysian calling their product as batik. What a tool. You guys have no idea at all.
my last comment is for kamarul and so much for your stupid comments.
rasa sayang song is belong to indonesia.
and its a shame for myASSians to use that song.
“bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” - “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”
pejuangan said:
indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..lepasni pun ada lagi kot..
pretty said:
pejuangan, do you realize ? siapa saja tersangka pelaku bom itu ? mereka mengaku ditraining di Malaysia! Bahkan tersangka bomber di Indonesia yang paling dicari kemarin (dr Azhari) pun berdarah Malaysia!
Sorry for bringing up this delicate matter, but please dont start with this bomb thing. Many people get killed and our nation suffered and mourn with the world since then for the loss of so many souls.
“precisely, pretty, now the real terrorists are myASSia, they did a massive propaganda on the jamaah islamiyah to bomb Bali”
shameful ay?
its not about winning, its about how you win. even with this tourism mater.
i dont know the word for malaysians and its tourism board. shameful indeed.
theres no need to lengthen the debate whos who, just prove it that its urs, thats all that matters. from what i know there is NOBODY can challenge me by giving out the fact that an INDONESIAN guy
Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
“Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia
so uguys can go upto anything to say whatsoever u like..the fact that u can’t prove it urs say it all…until somebody say that this INDONESIAN guy is a total moron that i would take it seriously onto further debate whether it is really indonesian but till then the song belongs to nusantara, no country have ever been claimed that it is theirs
and another thing…i really don’t think that a war is necessary but if uguys still insisting on it, let us check on the record
if indonesia with its so-called really strong army cannot really maintain its region ie losing timor leste for instance. for that matter timor leste didnt really have an army…i would wonder what would happen if indonesia attack a nation with an established army though…hehe
Yo guys. Good to see a spirited discussion and debate going on here. Just two things to ask of all the participants here:
1. Keep the arguments skillful. Avoid name calling, substantiate arguments and address main thrust of arguments rather than nit picking.
2. Please, please take some time to post a comment in the Now to Rasa Some Sayang post.
Apart from that, fire away and enjoy yourselves!
salah ke guna lagu rasa sayang. kami tak mencuri lagu tu tapi kami mewarisi dari orang Indonesia pun dah ramai jadi warga Malaysia kalau betul lagu rasa sayang itu dari Indonesia. Jika tidak mahu khazanah Indonesia yang lain diwarisi orang Malaysia kamu ambil balik warga kamu di Malaysia sebelum warga kamu berkahwin disini dan beranak pinak disini. tarian naga dan singa dari China pun sudah menjadi kebudayaan disini tetapi China tidak mengambil tindakan seperti kamu. Kami tidak mencuri budaya China tetapi mewarisinya saya pun pernah melihat org india di Malaysia menyertai kumpula tarian singa ini yg majoritinya org Cina. jadi apa masalahnya jika orang Indonesia yang menjadi warga Malaysia mewarisi lagu Rasa sayang itu kepada anak cucunya dan anak cucu dari keturunan itu berkongsi lagu itu pada semua bangsa di Malaysia. Skarang lagu rasa sayang itu sudah sebati dalam jiwa rakyat Malaysia tidak mengira kaum melayu, cina, india dan byk lagi.
@kamarul:
lol. what an answer I have already predicted by those prick malaysians.
all you know is just defending your stupid country, without knowing whether they are right or wrong.
as I said, u have no idea what is AMBONESE people, ambonese culture, ambonese languange, and ambonese folk song.
when did myASSia exist?
when did Indonesia exist?
when did AMBONESE culture, songs, language exist?
lol
how bout that? plagiarists?
just admit that Indonesian’s culture is far richer than malaysian’s, and malayshit just too jealous to us.
now youre talking about timor leste. lol. see. u keep proving that you are a stupid poofter in every posts. timor leste did not have army, they are backed by Australian’s army. now you think, studge.
my Gosh.
@sayang:
its not we do not like u’re singing our folk song, hehe. we know that your country does not have many good folksongs.
it’s about commercializing those songs into your “truly assia” campaign.
that’s not fair. since it is our assets. not yours.
but its just shame.
“bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” - “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”
yeah yeah yeah accusing, with all kind of bad words, dats all u can do, none less!!! just one thing u couldnt do, to prove that the Indonesian copyright guy is wrong…and yeah australian army is the ones fighting indonesian army under the UN banner…i don’t know since when there was a UN resolution sending an army to counterattack indonesian army…i thunk ur still dreaming how NATO droved out those Serbians.
theres no need to repeat any of ur non sensible facts with addition of” i don’t know what culture that teaches u those bad words???” just admitlah u lost timor leste and u cannot prove that this song is urs….theres no need to mumbles around though
Pak Cik Kamarul,
Sadarkah anda bahwa anda dan rekan-rekan anda adalah korban dari hasil “indroktinasi” selama 50 tahun ini ……
Sadarkan anda bahwa definisi “Malay” di konstitusi negara anda adalah salah satu contoh dari “pola pikir” yang “keliru” sejak awal pembentukan negara anda ….
Sadarkah anda bahwa pemebelaan yang dilakukan oleh menteri anda hanyalah akibat “pola pikir” yang ‘keliru” tersebut ….
Saya pribadi memaklumi situasi ini …. tapi bagaimana dengan yang lain ?
Sorry, if I have to say it in Bahasa ….
its not mine, did i say it’s mine?it belongs to AMBONESE ppl, and ambon is in Indonesia territory. thats the fact. lol.
and yes, i admit that indonesia has lost its timor leste, coz its just a useless territory (unlike aceh). no wonder indonesian government did not put as much effort to block timor leste to leave indonesia as they did on Aceh.
precisely, youre the one who mumbles by talk about jewish, barbarians and all those crappy thing. remember?
haha.
robber!
PS kamarul: look at the comment from who dare to say the truth and to all my comments above.
and just look at the fact that your ministers are just too stone-hearted to admit that your country has too low in cultural richness compared to Indonesia.
??? who dare to say the turth…sorry to say but um i don’t get any dat u said
myASSia: its not mine, did i say it’s mine?it belongs to AMBONESE ppl, and ambon is in Indonesia territory. thats the fact.
Fact??? wat is the fact??? was it being registered by ur copyright ppl that it is indonesian??? if it was so, why the head of that council contradicted with u??? who is actually in charge of that agency, u or him??? is he working for u???
and um about my country’s cultural richness, i would have said it has its own unique form…multicultural society intermingled between dozens of ethnics mainly malay, chinese, indian, iban, dayak and so on!!! i think uguys have never understand our cultural richness as the way u talk were so like don’t really know what it is all about
in contrary with indonesia which practices that panca whatever things, although it embraced independent from the colonial much earlier than malaysia itself, from the history itself u can see it is not a matured and civilized nation. malaysia by the way, we settled our differences based on common ground, rationalism. we endured pain calmly and maturely quick enough to learn that violence and hatred can never solves problem in any way. the largest scale of conflict within malaysia was in 1969, thats nearly 40 years ago.
indonesia for meanwhile still gasping where to find the common ground within its failing society with failing economic, geopolitics and social system. it never learnt from past mistakes, and still continuing taking the wrong path…as if war can solve everything, the language of hatred and confrontational can solve everything…thats why u got a lot of domestic problems that u have to take care of…
based on these facts i would make things clear up…achievements of both nations in comparison of the duration it takes for each nation to become really matured and civilized…is the only thing that we can see clearly that which nationbuilding is failing…
I want to comment on kamarul question…
The fact that we don’t know who is the first writer of the song does not mean that anybody can use it without permission or claim that it is theirs.
Many of world’s songs that the writer is unknown, especially old song or traditional song. The right of this songs belongs to community.
In indonesia, we recognize that this song comes from Ambon (not from malay ethnic or javanese or bataknese) although we don’t know the writer. We acknowledge the people/community which it belongs to…
And it is not about royalty, i believe most indonesian will be satisfied if it is acknowledged as indonesian/ambon song…
thank you
thank you
if you cannot prove it, it’s better you STFU lah. Indonesia has more important issues like their Corruption Perception Index which was released recently by Transparency International shows that their ranking is 143 out of 180 countries with rank 1 being the least corrupt and 180 being the worst.
According to dictionary corrupt means lacking integrity, decayed, infected, wicked, evil, to lower morally, to be dishonest and to destroy integrity. Don’t Indonesia want to claim these virtues as also part of their assets and heritage?
Malaysia is not a saint either but we’re at least 100 ranking above you at number 43 but you are now in tong taik in terms of corruption. are you not ashamed of this? or maybe you need to forget this and feel good about yourself by bringing up a non-issue about us using a song that belong to the archipelago rather than a specific country.
well i wanted to reemphasized on sweet wednesday’s comments:
The fact that we don’t know who is the first writer of the song does not mean that anybody can use it without permission or claim that it is theirs.
Many of world’s songs that the writer is unknown, especially old song or traditional song. The right of this songs belongs to community.
now let us look upon it again, the first statement is “the fact we don’t who is the first writer” which means the exact particular owner of this song is unknown. secondly “does not mean that anybody can use it without permission”, then logically if we do not know the owner of the song, then from whom should we seek the permission??.
third “The right of this songs belongs to community.” and “In indonesia, we recognize that this song comes from Ambon” so clearly she literate the community that owns the song is in Ambon, now i would like to emphasize that it is not now, it is at the time the song was first introduced.
Then in brackets she said “(not from malay ethnic or javanese or bataknese)” which she stressed upon that it is not belong to any ethnic, making it more of Ambon (a place) rather than ethnic.
well logically we can say the owner of this song belong to people who was at Ambon at the time the song was introduced. now the people there could be of any ethnic background, and i believed this happened long2 time ago. Humans population do migrated from places to places over years and those people at Ambon at that time might have been spread to the whole world.
now lets assumed that logically people those days migarated to places near to them due to the impoverished transport system at that time. so i would say the nusantara is the best scope of region that can be reached within the context.
lastly it is concluded that its a song of nusantara becoz the ancestral heritage of it had spread beyond geographical boundaries. so it is not a song a nation, it is a song of the region, it is song of nusantara, and everybody in nusantara has the right to access it. Claiming that this entity as a nation’s right is a denial toward rights of other people from other countries…
Pak Cik Kamarul,
Sebetulnya saya malas kasih komentar lagi sebab ternyata kamu nggak sepintar yang saya sangka sebelumnya ….
Tapi komentar anda yang terakhir (sama dengan pendapat Menteri Kebudayaan anda) itu sangat sangat sangat berbahaya …. To legitimate that you have right to steal the heritage from other ethnics in Nusantara ….
Why don’t you be a “gentleman” for once, and admit that your country, even though very wealthy, lack the creativity that you have to “steal” from Indonesia since the beginning of time. If you got any dignity at all, apologize and repent. Give your countrymen a chance to prove they are capable of creating their own tunes and stop being petty thieves.
Honestly speaking, we gladly share the things that are ethnic Melayu like Kebaya, Songket, Zapin, etc because they are our shared heritage. But we can’t tolerate if Malaysian want to steal other indigenous Indonesians heritage that didn’t originate from the peninsula….
Jika anda ingin dihargai oleh orang lain, maka anda juga harus menghargai “hak milik” dan “kekayaan budaya” orang lain juga ….. Do you understand .. Pak Cik !!!
STEALING in this context is defined as an act to take something from a person, shop/store etc who owns it, without permisssion and without intending to return it or pay for it. now it looks like im gonna give something like an english lesson.
in order for us to prove that an act of stealing really occurred, we must fulfill the definition of stealing for that matter. first is “an act to take something from a person” which in this case we have to prove that this act of taking something really happened. now malaysia said this song is not indonesian becoz indonesia cannot prove that it is their, so it belongs to nusantara becoz of its ancestral heritage and i don’t recall malaysia saying that this song belong to us, all the while we are saying we have the right to use this song as nusantaran. indonesia in otherway claimed that this song belongs to them although they could not prove that it is their. so, the one performing the first rule of stealing by taking something which is not their is INDONESIA.
secondly, those who said it was taken away from must prove that the song is actually their. for this matter even the president of ur copyright thing cannot prove it, so the statement that says it is indonesian is just something crappy that uguys created without any backing proofs. malaysia on the other hand said that this song belong s to nusantara and based on facts and logical jurisdiction, it can be easily proved, i bet in any court of justice in the world.
thirdly, “without permisssion and without intending to return it or pay for it”, for this matter i questioned uguys, as if it is really urs, the writer of this song is unknown, so who would i pay for it, or return it or ask permission from. if u would say from indonesia, it cannot be becoz the owner of this song is logically people who were at Ambon at the time it was introduced. now these people might have migrated to other part of nusantara, there might not stayed until now within the geographical boundaries of indonesia. plus one more jackpot proving that this song is more of nusantara rather than indonesian.
i would say from the above criteria, indonesia has become more appropriate to fulfill most of the criteria needed to classify it stealing the song from nusantara as if the claimed that the song belong to indonesia and not nusantara. malaysia for the meanwhile did not even fulfill a single criteria as the one stealing….
@kamarul: I admire your passion. Even though I may not agree with some of the things you said, I think you have contributed to a very heated and so far quite healthy exchange of views.
But is there anything about Indonesia at all that you like? There must be something in this land of 240 million that you like. Do you mind posting what you like on the “Now to Rasa Some Sayang” thread?
@who dare… @kersani @sweet wednesday
Unspun admires your passion too but can you guys post about one thing you like about Malaysia as well in the other thread?
Unspun, and I think Unspun’s readers are too, is curious whether in the heat of your passion you still retain the ability to appreciate that “the other side” usually has redeeming qualities too.
Other than that…continue with your most spirited discussion
im giving two thumbs up for few comments left lately from other threads. first to opah on now rasa some sayang. u know shes been making the point why im saying ur social policy that panca whatsoever is failing in its first place. it tries to assimilate the difference race and religions. for me technically it is dangerous becoz u does not appreciate the identity of each race and religion
in malaysia the social system is a bit safer, trying to integrate those races and religions, not assimilate. in any nation there should be a problem including malaysia but i think this is rather a better a good platform rather than those in indonesia
second to kemsey and long john on Malaysian Tourism Minister on Rasa Sayang: saying that how come the malay language which is the minority in indonesia was chosen to be the indonesian language and not those javanese language which is the majority. what a shame choosing a minority language to be become ur national identity over those javanese and the other craps haha
Hi unspun….
well… thank you for asking those question…
off course there are things that i like from malaysia…
since my last visit to malaysia was on 96, so i don’t know much about it now.
I like siti nur haliza, i like the thinking of mr. mahathir (not all..off course), and i admire how malaysia develops their human resources… among others..
I believe that your question leads to the call that we should not blindly hate each other … and i strongly agree with you…
I would like to comment also to kersani, that your arguments seems to be out of context. Well i also disappointed of Indonesia’s record on corruption, but there are a lot more that we love about this country. This has nothing to do with our disappointment when Malaysia use Indonesian song without acknowledgment…
I have many other things to criticize about Malaysia.. but I’ll try to limit myself on this issue..
comment on kamarul :
kamarul said : ‘well logically we can say the owner of this song belong to people who was at Ambon at the time the song was introduced. now the people there could be of any ethnic background, and i believed this happened long2 time ago. Humans population do migrated from places to places over years and those people at Ambon at that time might have been spread to the whole world’.
I cannot agree with the statement… people of ambon also migrated to java, kalimantan, etc, and married to other ethnic. But people in other indonesian island knows that this song originated from maluku…
along this line and following your statement, than Malaysia could also say that this song is popular in nusantara which was originated from Ambon (part of Indonesia)
And this didn’t happen long-long time a go…
‘Dave’ said in our very early discussion that indonesian navy spreaded this song through nusantara in 1950s..
also in early discussion ‘Made’ said that malaysia knew this song when the ‘titian muhibah’ program existed… it was in 80s or early 90s… (probably some of the readers can ask TVRI to provide us with the footage..)
Even during my elementary school (80s) and during my brother’s (70s) we already played it in school. At that time i had traditional song book of indonesia which listed all indonesian traditional songs.. and one of them off course rasa sayange from maluku..
I still remember myself played the song with suling… and my teacher will ask me.. ‘where this song comes from ?’
I said ‘Maluku, bu guru…’
thank u
my point is in malaysia, we got malays that originated from part of indonesia eg minang, javanese, bugis and so on along with other ethnics. in indonesia also u uguys got this, javanese, malays, ambonese and so on. now the respective ethnics nowadays does not confined to a geographical boundaries.
thats why i ask uguys to prove to me factually, based on law that this song belong to indonesia which i means there is legal binding that this song is really urs. the problem is u cannot prove it and that is what im questioning about when uguys are claiming it. if let say uguys can prove it that it is urs, so be it, nobody gonna challenge that.
when nobody cannot claim that this song is their, so this song is better off belong to the region, let everybody use it, let everybody make it as their culture and theres no need to say somebody stealing it from you even though u cannot prove it is urs. u get what i mean??? of course this song originated from maluku, im not questioning it but when u say it belongs to indonesia and no other country can use it commercially then im asking a just question, whether u got any legal binding by saying those.
regarding migrated population, nobody can question their right to practice what they believes in, their custom, their heritage and their culture. when u say it belongs to indonesia and nobody cannot use it, what about these migrated populations’ right??? u have been denying their basic right of a human being, which is totally wrong. look at china, it got migrated population in alot of nations in the world even in the pacific, america, asia and so on. have u heard any conflict involving china restricting other nations from practising their culture, the hell no. becoz they are not so stupid like uguys that donot understand that cultures go whereever the population. not to mention other races too
just cut the crap already, u cannot prove it is urs and please donot deny other people’ right to their own culture.
Malaysian Theft
How dare you guys have a good banter without inviting me? Unspun should be spanked!!! (but he’ll probably enjoy it too much )
Now, if you guys read my article on this, you would have known by now that 75% of all Peninsular malays are Javanese migrants. The rest of the Peninsular Malays are migrants from Sulawesi (aka Celebes), Molukas, Kalimantan (although in small numbers only), Sumatera and so on so forth. As such, it is very understandable that these Malay migrant brought over their craftsmanship and art over.
Point being, all Malaysian anything is brought by all the pendatangs. Who is a pendatang? Everybody is a pendatang. The Sons of the soil theory simply does not hold water outide parliament (which by the way is still leaking).
So, let’s examine where all these pendatang brought their craftsmanship from. “The Keris is a Malay weapon” Boys, wave it around as much as you wish, it is on a stone relief in Borrobudor. Borrobudor is in Java. And the carving was done circa 600AD. Just about 100yrs before the Prophet Mohamed saw was born. It is on a Hindu carving. Why? Although Borrobudor is predominantly Buddhist, the Hindu-Malays carved the Beautiful and magnificent Keris with Ganesan. Who is Ganesan? Ganesan is son of Siva. Ganesan bin Abdullah? No, it’s Ganesan bin Siva. Supreme God of the Hindus. And Ganesan bin Siva is holding the beautiful magnificent symbol of the Malays.
I believe the Indonesians are nice already. If they wanted to “sue” Malaysians, they could have sued over the use of the Keris for copyright infringement on the logo of the UTANO twice (united truly Asia national organization), coz the UTANO logo simply bears 2 (two) keris’. So the Indonesians were already very kind.
Next, we have the Batik. You have designer fashion plagiarism executed to the max, by all Batik manufacturers around Malaysia, since every single brochure claims that Batik is a truly Malaysian creation. (somebody sue them please).
Another fashion plagiarism is on the attire of the wayang kulit. The Siamese can also sue Malaysia for clothing copyrights infringement, coz not a single soul in Malaysia dresses like the Wayang Kulit characters.
Ah, but even the Wayang Kulit hero. The Supreme Superman of the Wayang Kulit is another theft. His name is Ramayana. He is not even Siamese. Now, the Indians can sue Malaysia for stealing his identity. What am I talking about? Ramayana is a Hindu God Deity. Not only can the Indians sue Malaysia for character copyright, they can also sue Malaysia for defamation and mis-representation of the true nature of Ramayana. You see, Ramayana, a Hindu God, cannot be spreading the word of Islam, much like Kuan Yin cannot say “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”. So, you poor Malaysian people have been fed another set of lies without knowing that there are many lawsuits waiting if all these original creators came to file lawsuits.
Shall we continue? Sure, why not. While we are at it, let’s look at the Rebana, Kompang, Gendang, Jiduk, Serunai, and so on so forth. Didn’t they all originate from Indonesia a well?
We are just warming up. To continue the long list of lawsuits, we also have the Kuda Kepang, a true blue Javanese Pagan dance. What do you mean Pagan? Isn’t it a Malay dance? Sure, if you consider the fact that these ex-Indonesians used to be animistic pagans before becoming Hindu. So why is the Kuda Kepang a Pagan dance? Simple. Coz part of the dance involves all the dancers getting into a trance whereby they do really really bizarre things. Go attend any wedding in Johore, and you will see the Pagan Dancers rip coconuts with their bare teeth, or eat broken glass, and even lie down on the broken glas while someone else steps and jumps on their bodies. (Please watch Discover Malaysia when it goes on air to enjoy all these sights.)
Even the simple Wau is another copyright infringement. Let’ not go through the full list or else, the entire Malaysian reserves will be spent paying royalties for the next 7 generations.
What can Indonesia do about it? Simple. Indonesia can run it’s own set of Advertising campaigns announcing to the world that since all national Malaysian craft, language, people, skills, and intellect originated from Indonesia, that all the tourists should go to Indonesia instead of Malaysia to see the real authentic source of origins. And they can play the Rasa Sayang song at the same time. Since no one can claim ownerhip, why waste money on trying to prove its origins. Indonesians note, take advantage of the fact that Malaysia is pumping in an additional RM8million on top of last years’ Rm8million to publicize “Truly Asians”.
Marketing experts call this the piggybacking concept. And no, I will NOT sue Indonesia for this idea. I am being kind. Well, on the other hand, Indonesians can always buy me a cup of coffee when this “piggyback visit Indonesia campaign” succeeds. Just remember to insist on playing “Rasa Sayang” when you do it.
*Sigh*
Malaysians just never learn. Must be a severe case of Amnesia. Didn’t I just give you all the run-down on the History of Malaysia? Or rather, the origins of the Malays? Unspun please show them the way.
All self-claimed“true-blood” keris-wielding Malays are ex-Indonesians. As such, all crafts and songs, legends and stories originate from Indonesia. Together, they form the “Rumpun Melayu”. Unfortunately this Rumpun Melayu does not stop at Indonesia. It extends all the way up till Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand right up until Easter Island. The so-called “scientific” name is Malayo-Polynesian. (yes that is the correct spelling) It was rejected in 1870’s because of lack of evidence in classifying the Malays as a race. Hence the Linguistic constipated definition.
In fact 75% of self-claimed True-Blood Malays are no more than ex-Javanese. The rest, are Bugis (Sulawesi), and the Sumatrans. Even the “Great Malaccan Empire” was a Sumatran migrant.
Take the great “founder” of Modern Malaysia. The “Legendary” Parameswara. Who was he? Our “his-story” textbooks tell us that he was a Prince from Palembang who founded the great Malacca Empire. Apparently a small mousedeer kicked his dog’s ass so hard that he said that this was a good place to start a Kingdom.
Number ONE) I’ve got very bad news for you. A prominent NUS Professor is about to publish a 600+ page TEXTBOOK, which in a nutshell summarizes that
“MALACCA was INSIGNIFICANT”
I’ve already read it. The facts clearly point in that direction. (E-mail me, and I will get you autographed copies of it when the book goes to print at the end of Oct)
Number TWO) Don’t’ you think the tiny ass-kicking mousedeer part is a bit far fetched? Mind you, this is in YOUR CHILDRENS” TEXTBOOKS!!!! Do you want them to be fed that kind of CRAP?
Number THREE) Here’s the REAL Story. Parameswara was the Prince of the Majapahit Empire. There was a Death Warrant on his head decreed by HIS OWN FATHER for wanting to usurp the Throne. He ran. He ran to Singapore. After a week, he KILLED THE SINGAPORE chieftain. (Its beautifully played out in a multimedia presentation in The History Museum of Singapore. I think I was the only one in the room, who was proudly clapping when I saw this) (even the Pasir Salak, Perak Museum confirms this with a marrionette) Since Singapore was under Thai rule at that point, The Siamese King issued Parameswara’s second Death Warrant. He ran to a place called “Biawak Busuk” at the mouth of the Muar River. As the Siamese were catching up with him, he ran away again. This time, to Malacca. By then, since his only source of income was Piracy by his Bugis followers, (who plied the Straits of Malacca), the Achenese issued Parameswara’s THIRD Death Warrant for Piracy of their ships.
A runaway Hindu Prince called Parameswara with 3 death warrants on his head. That’s the founder of Modern Malaysia. Now why weren’t we told of this? Coz it’s embarrassing! That’s why! Wanna hear what else has been hidden? I’m merely scratching the surface!
I was researching for any trace of the “Great Malaccan Empire” and sad to say, I did not find one shred of evidence at all! To visit “Historic Malacca” you see the Portugese Fort, and the Red Dutch buildings. You also see a “re-creation” of a big building they call the Palace. I want solid evidence of the “Great Malaccan Empire”. Not the “Great Portugese Empire”, or the “Great Dutch Empire”.
The Malaccan Sultanate existed. Don’t get me wrong, but it was not THE Great Empire which one is falsely led to believe. It was more akin to a roadside canteen selling the-tarik.
We now ask ourselves, what all this “Ketuanan Melayu” is all about. Transalated, it means the “Lordship of the Malays”. Let us all ask who the Malays have “Lordship” over? And is how they celebrate this “lordship” by frantically waving a keris (crooked knife) at public meetings on national tv like a Drunken Wiccan Ritual on steroids? Let’s all wait until the Malays release the “official” press release on whom exactly the Malays have lordship over.
Until then, let’s all debate on the other fact, which is that Rais Yatim specifically stated that the Wayang Kulit is of Hindu origin. Not just that, the design are all clearly Siamese, to reflect the other northern migrants’ origins.
Final word, Bengawan Solo is so much nicer than “Taste of Love” (rasa saying).
And Anggun’s English Albums are far superior to Malaysia’s backward-driven-cheap-copies of crap metal of the 70’s. Not worth it. Forget it. The fact is, Malaysia will always be a B-grade copycat. And to think that the Foreign Minister made an ass of himself on Hard Talk on the BBC just not too long ago. Worse, he openly admits to copying others…..
Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins. Maybe Indonesia wants to take over their “rightful claim” on Malaysia like in the 1960’s? So they are now spawning ideas about all that I’ve written so far….be warned. Don’t say I didn’t tell you.
Truly Asia Boleh
hey unspun, I’ve posted twice already on this and it still didn’t appear. if you read this and find my “mising post”, then you can delete this heads up. Thanx
@Michael: Sorry about that but Akismet caught you. Have restored the posts. Note to other readers: if you post something and it does not appear, write me at ong@maverick.co.id and I’ll rescue your comments from Akismet.
these are few updates on this matter: the malaysian cultural minister is ready to debate this matter based on law as the common ground saying to counterattack any indonesian argument saying that this song is their. he said that he had the proof based on extensive research on that matter. he said that the nusantaran peoples songs have been existed since sri wijaya period aledy that was from 6 to 13 centuries and that this culture had spread to the whole nusantara region and that NO NATION can claim that this song is their.
i would say if any legal action will be ever taken by the indonesian government against the malaysian, that we must reciprocate by taking appropriate legal action against the copycats songs of malaysian singer P Ramlee such as Hujan di Tengah Hari, Kata Dari Kalbu, Apabila Kau Tersenyum, Azizah, Tjik Mamat (Che Mamat) and Jalei-Jalei ( Yale-Yale song which was taken from the Berdosa Movie 1951). these songs as he said in those days do not have copyrights due to at that time we believe that the songs must be allowed to be shared to find common ground by neighboring countries. these songs were copies made by indonesian singers such as Sjaugi (Shaugi), Hasnah Tahar and Rien in the early 1980-an
however, because we have these records available with overwhelming proofs making any LEGAL action against the indonesian government is imminent, easily to be taken and the prospects of gaining alot is really significant. furthermore, it will give a nightmare backlash against the indonesian music industries.
I think the minister should also look into their recent Sinetron called Bawang Merah Bawang Putih which is a copycat of our folklore as well. Their TV series was produced in 2004-2005 while we make a film titled Bawang Putih Bawang Merah way back during the Cathay Keris era in 1959 starring the late Latifah Omar and Umi Kalthom.
http://www.filemkita.com/filem/b/bawang_putih_bawang_merah_01.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bawang_Putih_Bawang_Merah
thanks mike for the informative facts…all this while ive been saying that the culture goes wherever the people goes. u can call me whatever u like, like i care but u just prove that we have migrants population all over the countries and that from these migrants population our cultures originated. u said they are ex-indonesian, i would say indonesia didnt even existed at that time. if u say they are ex-javanese, ex-bugis, ex-minang, ex-siamese, then it cannot be. the ethnic of a person can never change whether he got to other places right???
so now these javanese, bugis, siamese and so on stayed in malaysia. do they have the right to practice their culture based on their ancestral heritage??? if u said NO then u are denying the basic right of a human being to practice what the believes and their culture. so for me they have the bloody right to practice batik, those rasa sayang, wayang kulit, keris etc. now talking about keris somemore, wake uplah, u should do another research on this. u are making a connection between this keris and the ketuanan melayu concept.
now let me tell u though, this ketuanan melayu crap is created by those UMNO people which means its a political concept. u go and do a survey on malaysian and ask them whether it is a concept for our nation. the hell NO, its political, they do this to boost the support from the far-right voters. not to mention that crap NEP things, u go and ask the malaysian, how many of them agrees on it???
theres no need to do those crappy things, accusing somemore, u go and read my post above, does malaysia did fulfill the basic definition of stealing???? and who else fits better??? now for what u said about the wayang kulit and i really think u should do less research but think more. the answers are in ur statement but i bet u never think about it, do ya??? i would say YES its storyline is based on history but it is not really factual, its depiction. now i myself at the first place donot understand this coz im not so that art enthusiasts but u know its as simple as ABC. the storyline is a depiction of how a hindu prince from majapahit (parameswara) as Ramayana came to malacca, converted to Islam and his making his state as the center of Islamic spread, its just the characters that they emphasized on, u need to understand whats behind it really.
now this ministers, do u think i like them the most??? the hell NO, this BN government should go down by any means, but why im saying like this is that in this matter they are making a good point. WHEN URE ACCUSING SOMEONE OF STEALING UR THINGS, U SHOULD PROVE THAT IT IS URS. im asking my indonesian counterpart who can prove that what the Indonesian copyright guy said is wrong, NONE of them prove it. im not that smart eh really and i dont really knows all the facts that u researched on but what im doing is that if they really think its their, then they should stand for it and prove it. NONE of them prove it, and what do ya expect me to say???
im really sure that u need to think alot more, less research. ur statements are like contradicting each other. First u mentioned “malaysian theft” by which u didnt prove any, u just skirted around the facts without making any points on stealing itself. then with all the baseless accusations, u end up saying “Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins.” what a heck and what a crap things to say. first u said we are theft then u said both of us are twins. PLEASE thinklah, what twins have belong to both of them, none can claim that it belong to one person and none can say that the other cannot have it. the latter says it all, uve been very confusing at the very beginning but hey i couldnt agree more with u on ur last point. what a mess….
by the way what are u??? bristish?? americans??? australian??? do tell me coz let me tell the others too what ur forefather or ur people did to other people. u are sure a very very bad “BATU API” for God’s sake. i read ur comments before even ur understanding on Islam itself is totally WRONG and hey im really sure u need to think more and less research….
“…Thanks mike for the informative facts…all this while I’ve been saying that the culture goes wherever the people goes. u can call me whatever u like, like I care but u just prove that we have migrants population all over the countries and that from these migrants population our cultures originated…”
MC: Am glad to help illuminate whenever I can
“…u said they are ex-Indonesian, I would say Indonesia didn’t even existed at that time. if u say they are ex-Javanese, ex-Bugis, ex-minang, ex-siamese, then it cannot be. the ethnic of a person can never change whether he got to other places right???…”
MC: Well, I used the term ex-Indonesians only to denote that they originated from Indonesia. Not as a political country, but a geographical one. This is in-line with the Indoesian Archipelago. Sorry if this confused you. But this is exactly my point from day one. The problem is, the Malaysian Government insists on creating and re-defining a brand new “race” which they call Malays. And this alone will conflict with the “Hindu Balinese Malays” and the “Catholic Sulawesi Malays”. By virtue of its definition, the Malaysian Government has added to the confusion of the Malay definition. So, when it is appropriate, the Balinese are sometimes called Malays, and sometimes not. What race definition is this?
“…so now these javanese, bugis, siamese and so on stayed in malaysia. do they have the right to practice their culture based on their ancestral heritage??? if u said NO then u are denying the basic right of a human being to practice what the believes and their culture….”
MC: No, way!! I believe that everybody HA THE RIGHT to practice their religion, craft, as well as set of beliefs from wherever they came from. The problem is claiming an external trait for its own, is creating this nonsensical abrogation.
“…now let me tell u though, this ketuanan melayu crap is created by those UMNO people which means its a political concept. u go and do a survey on malaysian and ask them whether it is a concept for our nation. the hell NO, its political, they do this to boost the support from the far-right voters. not to mention that crap NEP things, u go and ask the malaysian, how many of them agrees on it???…”
MC: God Bless you!!
“…The storyline is a depiction of how a hindu prince from majapahit (parameswara) as Ramayana came to malacca, converted to Islam and his making his state as the center of Islamic spread, its just the characters that they emphasized on, u need to understand whats behind it really….”
MC: I agree, but the one you mentioned is only one version. There are many other versions. In Kelantan they do have and play many other stories. Try visiting the Cultural Center. They will use the Wayang Kulit to tell many other tales as well. Albeit, all this is good when it comes to spreading values and such. Like I mentioned earlier, it’s like Kuan Yin saying “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life”….
“…im really sure that u need to think alot more, less research. ur statements are like contradicting each other. First u mentioned “malaysian theft” by which u didnt prove any, u just skirted around the facts without making any points on stealing itself….”
MC: I’m sorry I did not specify. You are right. I will now. All copyright infringements are considered theft (of intellectual property). So every example was indeed a theft. There’ an ancient Chinese saying, “Draw picture, no need draw intestines” (sheesh, sound like Yoda speaking) Ask any Chinese what this means.
“…then with all the baseless accusations…”
MC: Thank you for the heads up. I hope I’ve clarified it for you already of the theft examples.
“…U end up saying “Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins.” what a heck and what a crap things to say. first u said we are theft then u said both of us are twins. PLEASE think-lah, what twins have belong to both of them, none can claim that it belong to one person and none can say that the other cannot have it…”
MC: You are one heck of an intelligent guy. I really like you already. I do. I do. You were able to see through the entire point which I have been making. Malaysia and Indonesia are the same people split by a political divide. The fact that the Malaysian Government insists that the miraculous “sons-of-the-soil” concept is just ridiculous!!!! I stress again, that the majority migrated from Indonesia. And if Malaysian Malays were to admit that they are indeed migrants, then you have EVERY right to use AND practice those crafts which were theirs from the very beginning. So the real provoking question is, does the Malaysian Government have the BALLS to admit to this? This would be jeopardizing the very notion of “we were here all along”. Bollocks!!!! The first “malays” started their migration to the Peninsular merely 3,000yrs ago. The Asli’s on the other hand were already here 60,000yrs ago. The second larger wave of migrations (from Indonesia) came during the Malacca period. The largest group of Indonesian Migrants came over DURING THE LAST CENTURY!!!!!
“…The latter says it all, u’ve been very confusing at the very beginning but hey I couldn’t agree more with u on ur last point. what a mess….”
MC: Only because the amnesiac Malaysian Government decided to cloud the issues by not highlighting the facts in chronological order, Why? Coz it doesn’t fit their political agendas.
“…I read ur comments before even ur understanding on Islam itself is totally WRONG…”
MC: Well, without starting WWIII, I am taking the politically “correct” stance on portraying Islam. This would be in line with my philosophy of promoting peace and harmony. I am fully aware of the “cancellation” concepts, and the 9th Sura and what it says. Do you know how much damage it can cause if I were to discuss opinion? Please do NOT TAKE ME INTO THAT DISCUSION in a public forum. I’d be more than happy to discuss it in private with you. After all, I do want to live till a nice old age. (I hope you do too)
“…and hey, I’m really sure u need to think more and less research….”
MC: Perhaps, but the headaches this idiosyncratic Malaysian Government is giving me a headache which no Panadol/ Asprin/ Tylenol/ Ibuprofen is able to cure.
I’m a Malaysian, my parents are Chinese-Indian (my dad), and Javanese (my mom). My grandparents were immigrants, and as our family history goes, they were star-crossed lovers in true “Antara Dua Darjat” style, and had traversed the ocean to the shores of Peninsula so they could get married, bla bla bla.
I’m not embarassed of that story - in fact it’s a part of my identity and I’m proud of it. I used to travel to Jakarta and Medan to visit relatives and love my time there as well.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that there are also Malaysians who have roots in both countries and love both and watching the childish put-downs of one country from another is just sad.
(btw I don’t see “Indon” as a derogatory term, and it’s definitely not valid if only one group of people with self-declared superiority issues make it such.)
I think both countries have a lot of weaknesses. And both countries have a lot of wonderful things about them. And many of which are alike. I wish we’d just stop this argument - which is hard when the higher-ups of the countries decide to make it their own crusade for votes.
I hate it when Malaysians blame foreigners for every single problem in this country. As if Malaysians don’t do anything wrong at all. And if we really wanted to reduce the illegal immigrant labor issue - think about it - what about the thousands of Malay penggangurs on a free education ride from the government (half the time with merely average academic qualifications compared to private scholars chosen on merit not race) who are too arrogant to work small jobs and waiting for the next pay off? We’ve got Cambodians and Thais and the rest of the region working in restaurants, stores and construction sites. They found a way to make a living, no matter how humble the job is - it’s a way to keep their families afloat. Malaysians just stick their noses in the air and think these “buruh” level jobs are below them. So who’s going to do these jobs?
If all the immigrants left one day - Malaysians would be left with some major s*** in their hands. And then there will be some policy drawn up by some elected special committee wih a fancy name and big acronym to properly regulate a set of rules to allow foreign labor to do the jobs that are too menial for citizens of Bolehland.
I wish Rasa Sayang could be shared, instead of fought over. And the music industry debate should just stop because it’s turning into an ego war also.
I love Malaysia and I love Indonesia. I still refuse to indicate my ethnicity in every single Malaysian document (because we need to know who to give the discounts and hand outs to so much) because I think it doesn’t matter. I love the fact that so many beautiful cultures and traditions and art come from the different branches of my family tree that I can trace all over the world.
So let’s just leave the trivial childish arguments to the people who do it best - our politicians - and rise above them as people who can actually learn from each other, and SHARE.
Shortz, congratulations. You are among the very few I know who are of this opinion. You will need to help ensure that more such like-minded good people like yourself pass on this same desire of equality. I do fully agree with you that the arrogant Malaysians need to be brought down back to earth again. And that handouts shuld be limited to beggars. What boils a lot of us is the fact that some rich ass datuk’s and tan sri’s child is taking up space in the “handout” line for education scholarhips when the really needy are pushed aside. So what happens is the poor Malays in Malaysia become poorer and the rich become richer. The top level would try as hard as they can to ensure the continuity of this poverty to make sure that there are “examples” to show when they say “The Malays are dirt ass poor. Think I’m kidding? watch this segment on Hard Talk by the BBC and see how the Foreign Minister of Malaysia gets his ass grilled by the British
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6992908.stm
if you install real media player, you can download and store it on your pc or convert it to a vcd for all your friends and family to watch.
Keep it up shortz
wow..now i realized the debate had gone way too outstretched… i would like to bring it to the subject again.
Based on these few things we discussed:
1. every person has the right to practice their culture, anywhere they go including those malays, siamese, javanese, ambonese, bugis and so on in malaysia
2. the fact that the indonesian copyright head himself could not prove that the song is indonesian, so the malaysian MTB act of using the song commercially cannot be regards as stealing because it could not fulfill the definition of stealing.
3. we knew already from the very beginning that most malays in malaysia are immigrants from indonesia. as mike said they are twins of the indonesian, so they shared the same culture, the same heritage, the same ancestors. and we shouldnot deny their right to their culture and so on, they can practice or commercialize or whatever as they like because it is their culture, their right and nobody can stop them
so i wanna ask uguys a just question, to look whether u dare enough to answer my question, um especially mike though…
Should the rasa sayang song belongs to nusantara or indonesia??? if not please specify why. And should we allow the MTB to continue to use this song commercially??? if not, pls specify why oso. i remind uguys the reasons must be facts and law…please donot repeat those crappy emotions
hey!! quit picking on me, kamarul, I may have to spank you like I need to spank unspun…
As a filmmaker, I had to be fairly square on the Copyright Laws and the implied laws of the Bernie Convention. That doesn’t make me a lawyer, but we just had to understand it so that we do not contravene those laws when we produce films. So, here’s my take on the Copyrights laws to my best knowledge.
It states in the Bernie Convention that all copyright ownerships cease to exist after the demise of the original creator of the song/ work of art/ tv show, etc. (In certain circumstances, this however, is renewable should an entity of the songwriter/ singer/ performer/ filmmaker, etc (ie trustee/ foundation and so on)). You have to read the Bernie Act/ Convention to get the full details.
So one can re-write the songs, and re-record the songs in any way one wishes WITHOUT having to pay or acknowledge its original copyright owner at all if the songwriter/ singer has died for more than fifty years. This means, you can rewrite whatever you want from Elvis, as his copyrights have expired. However, you cannot just take his recorded songs, as the renewed copyrights belong to someone else. Dont ask me who; just check on their website details. In a typical song, there are multiple copyright owners. There is first the songwriter’s right, then the singer/ performer’s rights, and the musical performer’s rights, recording rights, distributor’s rights, and so on so forth.
However, with the creator of the Rasa Sayang being unknown, and if both countries claim that they have been singing it for centuries simply means that the Rasa Sayang Song has relegated to what is termed as a folk song. For the same reason that you cannot trace the original creators/ songwriters of folk songs, the original writers cannot be identified. As such, one is free to rewrite and rerecord these type songs as they see fit. They cannot however, use a less than fifty year old recording of any other person’s song/ version etc for any purpose without written consent and usually some form of payment. If you have visited the MTB site, you would notcie that they have NOT infringed on the established copyrights conventions set forth and agreed by every single country in the world known as the Bernie Convention.
And Malaysia is, thus not guilty. To address the question on whther it is ethical to use someone else’s song is thus, of another debate.
Now, I know what you are going to say…. Why then all the lawsuits which I mentioned. Up until this point of me telling you all of this, I knew fully well that Malaysia has not contravened the Bernie Act. But my point and take is that Malaysian Malays refuses to acknowledge that they are migrants. They insist that th