The posting Rasa Not so Sayang generated over 200 comments and seemed, to Unspun anyway, to have turned foes into friends of sorts in the course of their heated debates.
Unspun is therefore inviting the commentators who have posted in that thread to post comments on what their original perceptions are about the other’s country and how, if any, have these perceptions changed since they started engaging them in debate/conversation.
Unspun has a hunch that the Indonesian and Malaysian politicians may have a lesson to learn if it is true that blogging can provoke conversations, albeit heated, that lead to a greater understanding and appreciation of each other. Perhaps this is one of the ways build better Indonesian-Malaysian relationships?
Advertisement
Wow, Unspun, this is a though one leh.
I mean tough!! He he
@Vic: u got me wrong, or probly i didnt make it clear. Im not a hybrid, shes not my real mother, shes somebody who feed me and took care of me while my real mum was working, shes a close friend to the family. but in many sense, shes, like, the true real parent to me.
but granted, im hybrid in cultural sense: chinese-malay-bataknese-sundanese-javanese (and hopefully next year i will learn some of papua’s culture).
@unspun:
My previous thought was that malaysian was stealing my brothers cultural heritage.
but as |kamarul| pointed out, malaysia DIDNT claim the song,
although in my heart, it is actually still a defacto claiming (i will discuss this later in my new blog).
I complained that malays (as ethnic) should appreciate their own culture more than taking ambonese culture.
|kamarul|, again, passionately pointed out that we differ in the concept of the word “malay”. As ethnic or as race or as archipelago.
somebody’s blog, however, pointed out that wallacea line divided the archipelago islands, so that maluku is more austronesian in terms of natural diversity, and ambonese people is more to aboriginal pacifics than malays.
FYI, mostly-christian ambonese in skin colour, traditions, and cultural heritage are more like indonesian version of african-american (and this statement is by no means degrading, in fact we are proud of our mollucan brothers who mostly can sing very well)
then |Vic|(?) pointed that there could be mollucan descendant in malaysia, and as some other bloke argued, cultural heritage didnt stop at border.
as valid as |Vic|’s argument was, there is a problem on identifying them, coz of the way malaysian define their races and their nationbuilding (and by this im NOT, trying to arrogantly say indonesian way is better), they must have been assimilated to singular cultural identity called malay.
however, since our mollucans brother complained (i believe it was glen fredly, a pop-jazz singer, who complained about it first in kompas), we, indonesians have no choice other than to AT LEAST support them,
as i implied in my discussion about bahasa indonesia, when indonesians choose the name indonesia as our identity in the terms of language and unified nationhood, we de-facto-ly swore to defend any of our brothers’rights,
I mean, if our ambonese brothers of maluku/molluca have to complain alone, malaysian govt will easily dismiss them as a non-nation-entity.
But then theres a polemic of proof, as |kamarul| argued, law IS indeed the objective tool. Indonesia does have several (however weak) proofs about the song, but as pointed out by |mc|, bernie convention might dismiss those proofs.
Indonesians dont ask much actually, we just want malaysia acknowledge the ambonese heritage/influence.
But then as a friend of mine pointed out in my warungkopi (kopitiam?) session, by asking malaysians THAT, means,
we indonesians is trying to force our version of nationbuilding, of nationhood, and (as pointed out by |winterinoz| comment/post) our concept of respecting localities,
Meanwhile malaysians have different concept of culture, or in my words: cultural singularities, cmiiw.
Indonesians have NO rights to force Malaysians to follow our concept of national identity, as implied by asking malaysia to acknowledge the origin.
Somebody pointed out, that it COULD be from malaysia after all, of portuguese heritage. Im not music expert but, as somebody whos been in far too many cultural exchanges, i can sense that the tunes is not malay, it can be bataknese or ambonese, BUT it CAN also BE of portuguese heritage.
Therefore, claiming that the song was of malaysian portuguese heritage is as valid as claiming it from ambonese heritage, in musical sense.
at these point, im more curious than wanting to argue and defend my brothers, i mean really…!!! dont u want to know? I hope there will be legitimate research about this song just for curiousity sakes!!!
Looking at these whole polemics, i suddenly realize that there is a more principle struggle there, the clash was actually more in the basic concept level, instead of superficial song controversy, albeit unawarely done coz of our lack of understanding about each other, and probly about our own concepts and identities.
And even if we are able to solve this particular song problem conclusively, it will only scratch the proverbial surface.
My initial views on malaysia have differ so greatly with my latest stance, and for this,
kudos to unspun and my other malaysian bros/sis for spawning the thread.
Dear Bonar, I get it now, the term “breastfeeding mother” is taken literally from the Chinese meaning. Wow, with so many cultures you are exposed to, no wonder you easily understand the differences in other cultures.
You are as long winded like me leh. I’m too lazy to say what I’d said before. So I’ll just state a few simple ones la. Must fulfill the honour given by Unspun. Ha ha!
I was actually tracing MC’s essay on the origin of Malays then I stumbled upon these Rasa Sayang threads and links. Was helping Serenade to understand the Chinese.
If you follow Unspun’s Straight and Crooked Thinking thread, you’ll see most of my comments has a hidden message. Well, most people didn’t noticed it and continues to presents defensive, offensive, irrational, illogical, emotional, baseless and brainless remarks. When I put remarks on Kamarul, I was also refering to the Indonesians. Well, these people still don’t change, so I decided to stop posting and telling Kamarul to stop too(He’s an irritating chap! Ha ha ha). Somehow, with a different tone, the thread became a chat place. Ha ha.
You people showed me Indonesia has fine thinking people too, all cheers!!
One thing I noticed, those who had actually go through the early half started to have wiser remarks. Well, I guess blogsphere still works in bridging ideas, closing the cultural gaps and breaking the borders.
“If you follow Unspun’s Straight and Crooked Thinking thread, you’ll see most of my comments has a hidden message.”
May I laugh about it? hahahahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaa
Yet another hero… self-proclaiming…
Yes, now bow to me. ha ha ha.
sorry vic, for that long blabberings, i wrote it in a hurry, didnt check whether my thoughts were coherently sound or not.
i was trying to explain my thought process, from
“u steal from me, it hurts!”
to
“u may or u may not be stealing, but i think we need to dig deeper to revisit our own concepts”
thats all
@Vic.Kyle, Ellane
Don’t worry bout Pontianak, here “nama beken” for the evil female ghost are Kuntilanak. It has been made into movies and B grade sinetron too often.
@Bonar
You forgot, Kamarul said there’s no way we can tell which nation sings the song first. If we can’t proof the ownership, then we have the proof that the song has been sung in Indonesia since the Dutch colonialization
As winterinoz said it, the big difference between Indonesian and Malaysian is the concept of “Melayu”. For that matter, we can blame the Malaysian Government who was stupid enough to classify race based on religion.
Other than the government and the “oknum” in the government who likes to intimidate all Indonesian, I think Malaysians are fun to chat with.
haiya, you guys didn’t wait for me…
@Vic.Kyle, Ellane
Don’t worry bout Pontianak, here “nama beken” for the evil female ghost are Kuntilanak. It has been made into movies and B grade sinetron too often.
@Bonar
You forgot, Kamarul said there’s no way we can tell which nation sings the song first. If we can’t proof the ownership, then we have the proof that the song has been sung in Indonesia since the Dutch colonialization
As winterinoz said it, the big difference between Indonesian and Malaysian is the concept of “Melayu”. For that matter, we can blame the Malaysian Government who was stupid enough to classify race based on religion.
Other than the government and the “oknum” in the government who likes to intimidate all Indonesian, I think Malaysians are fun to chat with.
@bluey, triedtobehonest, (are u the same person?)
yes bluey, somebody pointed that out.
But let me tell you something, with that opinion, we might have the advantage, for now.
But then years ahead, malaysia might have another earlier proof, and pooff, we suddenly thrown to this argument all over again. it will be a bitter lose-lose situation now and then, it will only scratch the proverbial surface.
We need to find an smart and elegant solution for this, right? My opinion is that it lies not on proofs and legal actions, but political and cultural cooperation.
As for blaming malaysian government, i beg you not, it is not our problem, it is not our right to criticize them.
(no, im not pointing my fingers) let them be, we know better about ourselves.
IF SOMEbody from other country criticizes our govt, ideology and panca-thing
on the fun side, if we are using malaysian definition of malays, then indonesia actually is the biggest malay country in the world, we might actually HAVE something here to claim that song (?) hehehhe
“For that matter, we can blame the Malaysian Government who was stupid enough to classify race based on religion.”
I agree with that since race is based on:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=65069&dict=CALD
http://www.elook.org/dictionary/race.html
For comparison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28classification_of_human_beings%29
Malay (Melayu) is a race or language???
Meanwhile, Indonesia??? See : Sumpah Pemuda
http://forum.indonesiepagina.nl/topic/5341/sumpah_pemuda_1_land_1_volk_en_1_taal.php
Sorry it’s in Dutch:
Aanwezig waren :
Jong Java , Jong Sumatra, Jong Islamieten Bond , Sekar Roekoen, Jong Bataks, Jong Theosofen Bond , Ambonsche Studerenden , Minahasasche Studerenden, Boedi Oetomo , studie club Indonesia, Muhammadiyah en leden van de Nederlandsch Indische regering (Politie, PID , en Adviseur voor Inlandsche Zaken).
De reultaten werd in een verslag samengevat , met het titel “Verslag van het Eerste Indonesische – Jeugd Congres.
Yang hadir pada saat itu:
Pemuda Jawa, Pemuda Sumatra, Pemuda Kesatuan Islam, Sekar Rukun, Pemuda Batak, Pemuda Kesatuan Teosofi, Mahasiswa2 Ambon, Mahasiswa2 Minahasa, Budi Utomo, Kelompok Studi Indonesia, Muhammadiyah dan anggota pemerintahan Indonesia Belanda (Polisi, PID, Penasihat untuk Urusan Pribumi).
Hasilnya dirangkum dalam laporan, dengan judul “Laporan dari Kongres Pertama Pemuda Indonesia”.
Huh, can you imagine why Indonesians are proud of their country? And why Dutch veterans still cant accept it that Indonesia should be separated from their kingdom. They say Sukarno is a naughty boy.
And look into the process of Pancasila and UUD 1945. Many changes had been made due to some crisis. In my opinion, Indonesians today should learn from it, and understand the current situation. (sorry, again away from the main topic)
“If we can’t proof the ownership, then we have the proof that the song has been sung in Indonesia since the Dutch colonialization”
It think it’s not simply the matter of ownership. And, probably Indonesia own that song based on ‘who has first done what’.
“We need to find an smart and elegant solution for this, right? My opinion is that it lies not on proofs and legal actions, but political and cultural cooperation.”
To me, there is no solution needed on this. Indonesia has right to complain and to criticize. Let Malaysians think of themselves.
I tot this thread should bridge the people of the 2 nation…. …. ….
Couldn’t everyone say something nice of each other or maybe let us know what you felt at first and if it has changed after the 300 over comments in the Rasa Sayang thread.
No fun if we have to start all over again … that just simply means that blogsphere not good place enough to bridge the gap.
Unspun… I got eaten!! help me