Najib an orang Bugis or an orang Melayu?


This is all very confusing if you live in Indonesia and are used to how Indonesians identify ethnic groups.

In Indonesia you would say that Malaysian Prime Minister Najib is  a  a orang Bugis.   At no time would the Indonesians say that he is a orang Melayu or even orang keturunan Melayu because his ancestors hail from Sulawesi, not Riau or a small part of Kalimantan that is home to orang Melayu in Indonesia.

Yet in Malaysia, Najib is head of the United Malays National Organization, or Umno, that is the main coalition partner in Malaysia. The organization champions Malay rights and such interesting concepts such as ketuanan Melayu (Malay superiority).

So please help me out: Is Najib a Bugis or a Malay? Or a Gowan (if such a word exists and its not Scottish for a yellowish flower).

Najib: Gowa visit like a homecoming

By SA’ODAH ELIAS

MAKASSAR (South Sulawesi): For Datuk Seri Mohd Najib Tun Razak, his second visit to this capital city of South Sulawesi since becoming Prime Minister is by far the most nostalgic one.

Royal welcome: Najib (centre) and his wife Rosmah, dressed in traditional Gowa costumes, arriving for the 689th anniversary ceremony of the Gowa kingdom yesterday. — Reuters

Royal welcome: Najib (centre) and his wife Rosmah, dressed in traditional Gowa costumes, arriving for the 689th anniversary ceremony of the Gowa kingdom yesterday. — Reuters

“I feel like I am returning to my roots,” said Najib at the end of his one-day official visit yesterday. He is making his fourth visit to the capital.

Read More.

About unspun

An eternal student of persuasion, communication and crisis management skills, with a propensity to unspin spins
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153 Responses to Najib an orang Bugis or an orang Melayu?

  1. ibnu says:

    I think in term of race, Najib is an orang Melayu, the same with Bambang Yudhoyono the prsident of Indoensia. In term of ethnic, he is an orang Bugis and Bambang Yudhoyono is an orang Jawa.

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  2. fisto says:

    i think Gowa is a part of Makassar – not Bugis – region. Both ethnics are from South Sulawesi.

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  3. gombang says:

    He is Bugis, of course. But as you may know, a lot of Bugis has adopted Malay traditions. I think the underkings (Yamtuan Muda) of Riau-Johor Sultanate and sultans of Selangor do this. So perhaps you can call him Malay also. I also read somewhere that last dynasty of Aceh sultanate was also of Bugis descent. Are they Acehnese or Bugis?

    Anyway, I don’t think ethic identity matters much here in Indonesia. I have cousins who can call themselves Bataks and Minangkabaus at once. It doesn’t really matter.

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  4. Pingback: Najib an orang Bugis or an orang Melayu? « Unspun | Melayu Boleh

  5. Neo says:

    He is a Bugis and a Malays.

    Everyone living in Malays Archipelago whether its Java, Minang, Bugis, Banjar and hundreds more of ethnic groups are Malays.

    A study was once done by a German researcher about this.

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    • Antares says:

      For decades I assumed the “Malay Archipelago” and “Malaya” were named for the Malays. Imagine my surprise when I recently discovered that the word “Malay” as in “Malay Peninsula” actually derives from the Tamil word for mountain or highlands – malai. Don’t forget the Srivijaya and, later, Majapahit Empires existed long before waves of Sumatran, Javanese and Bugis refugees from provincial feuds began to settle on the Peninsula.

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  6. telcogo says:

    thats why PM Najib feel more comfortable negotiation with former VP Jusuf Kalla, have u ever read VP Kalla Blog about Bugis diplomatic, thats why i’m very proud of pak JK.

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  7. lac says:

    if we go by the German researcher Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752-1840),malay race are consisted of all people with brown skin colour (considered outdated ). That include the ibans, the polynesian, thais, burmese, fillipinos and all brown skins in asia & polynesia.

    So according to this, PM. Najib is as Malay as the Iban.

    While with the New Classification based according to , Malay are an “ethnic” group (not race) which is part of Malayo-Polynesian grouping of the main Austronesian people. “Bugis” is also an ethnic group within this Malayo-Polynesian family, and one of 300 ethnic groups in Indonesia. While Iban is within the Borneo group of Austronesian people.

    So accordingly, PM. Najib is A Malaysian Prime Minister coming from the Bugis Ethnic group of Sulawesi, not from Malay Ethic group.

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    • apeirokalia says:

      Add to this the fact that Blumenbachs theories have been very much refuted by a lot of scholars, due to the fact that they were done with very simplistic methods and often hinted on racist stereotyping.

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  8. wahyu says:

    he is bugis if his both parents are bugis.. i think in indonesia it’s more depends on what is your ancestor than what tradition you adopt.. i have friend who born and live in semarang speak and act like javanese but still consider himself as batak because his both parents are batak..

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  9. apeirokalia says:

    I mean no offense when I say this… But as an Indonesian often living abroad and often frequenting Malaysia, I really don’t understand the whole racial categorization in Malaysia. I’ve often wondered how it can maintain it’s integrity (the ‘unity’ of the nation and not the ‘pride’ of the nation) with so much racial categorizing. I mean… I understand how one poster can make that comment about Pauline Hanson. Ketuanan Melayu (Malay superiority) doesn’t sound like a very nice sort of policy for a political party. But maybe I am an outsider and I can not fathom the true meaning.

    And of course its not to say that racial categorization doesn’t happen in Indonesia (or anywhere else), the ethnic Tionghoa (the Politically Correct Indonesian word for their ethnic chinese) very much feel the effects of it. And often only vote for parties seen as neutral (Like PDI-Perjuangan). But PDI-Perjuangan itself does not state any kind of race as superior or hold any official policies that even hint on such a thing….

    I hope I am misunderstanding UMNO, but wouldn’t it be wiser to encourage a more mixed interaction in politics? That doesn’t orient itself around only Melayu, Indian, Chinese, Bugis, etc. ? Or are there already Malaysian parties that do exist and are doing this?

    Apologies if this is too off topic.

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    • Michel says:

      I hope I am misunderstanding UMNO, but wouldn’t it be wiser to encourage a more mixed interaction in politics? That doesn’t orient itself around only Melayu, Indian, Chinese, Bugis, etc. ? Or are there already Malaysian parties that do exist and are doing this?

      Indeed there are. The ruling coalition (Barisan Nasional) practices communalism — i.e. each component party represents a distinct ethnic community, but there are ideology-based opposition parties: the largest of which, Keadilan, leads the opposition grouping, though with Anwar being distracted by court cases, the Islamist PAS is increasingly taking that role. Note that even PAS has more non-Malay/non-Muslim supporters than UMNO, indicating how odious the “ketuanan Melayu” concept is. There’s also Parti Rakyat Malaysia if socialism is your thing.

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      • apeirokalia says:

        Thanks for the good info. I didn’t know there were socialist parties in Malaysia.

        I don’t understand the part about Barisan Nasional practicing communalism though… Does that mean they are a coalition? Comprising of several parties?

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    • Ranen Bhattacharyya says:

      Great piece, and good observation. I’m Malaysian, the documents I fill in demands that I state my ancestry – so I have to fill in at the space provided “Indian”. hell, I don’t feeel Indian! I have never been to India. Don’t like Indian movies. Love the food though. So all this need to emphasis on ancestry is a social-economic tactic to deny people like me equal rights.

      Have a nice day, have yet to visit any part of Indonesia – will do some fine day, God willing!

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    • NIM says:

      What does Ketuanan Melayu means?

      Before the colonization period, each King in Nusantara is the owner of all the lands in his territory. In other words, the citizens and non-citizens are living on The King’s land with The King’s permission. Then the European Colonists came and they trick The Kings to give them the permission to use and grab the lands. They also trick The Kings to enable them to administer his territory indirectly until Malaysia, Indonesia and other Malays’ owned countries free themselves and became independent.

      I don’t know what happened in Indonesia but in Malaysia, The Malay Kings are the ruler and owner of the country from the start, even during colonization (they weren’t wipe out by the colonist), and till this day. Even the colonist has to ask permission from The Malay Kings in order to create Malayan Union. Without The Kings’ permission, they could not go through with their plan.

      Well, it’s a long story after that so to make it short, Malaysia is born with all The Kings’ power intake. Even the Chinese and Indians who are not the original citizen of the country have agreed to acknowledge that through The Social Contracts in order to be granted mass citizenship (which have never been done before in ANY other country in the world).

      In conclusion, Ketuanan Melayu doesn’t mean oppressing others at all but rather a firm term to acknowledge the ruler of the country. So it’s not that different with how it is in Japan and United Kingdoms (UK). Sure, they don’t have the term of Ketuanan Jepun or Ketuanan Orang Inggeris, but have you seen their Kings being of different races? Would you think it’s racist that The King of Japan will always be Japanese and The King of United Kingdom will always be English?

      Of course not, right?

      With that said, I don’t think it’s appropriate and fair for others who claim to be Malaysian Chinese or Malaysian Indian to complaint about this matter before, now and in the future.

      Oh, by the way, some citizens who are history blinds, accused The Malays as ‘pendatang’ (immigrants) just like them and stole the throne from The Aborigines. But the facts are 1) The Aborigines in Malaysia are divided by categories and 2) one of them is Proto Malay. Orang Kuala, Orang Kanaq, Orang Seletar, Jakun, Semelai and Temuan are examples of the Proto Malay category and if that is not enough as a hint, Proto Malay means they’re aborigines for the Modern Malay (Deutro Malay). So there.

      You ask how can we unite when there’s so many racial categorizing?

      Well, I don’t know why do you think it’s odd. Being united doesn’t mean we must become one, but rather not fighting each other and working together towards the same goals. There’s no need to sacrifice one’s race and religion in order to achieve that.

      With that said, The Malays have their own culture, habits and all Malays in Malaysia MUST BE Muslims. The aborigines have their own culture, habits and they’re usually totally mixed when it comes to religion. The Chinese have their own culture from China, habits and most of them are Buddhist. The Indians have their own culture from India, habits and most of them are Hindus.

      So who would know The Malays’ culture and needs best if not the Malays themselves? Who would know The Aborigines’ culture and needs best if not The Aborigines themselves? The same goes for The Chinese and Indians.

      After each racial group discuss among themselves about their needs, each team representative will meet each other to discuss each team’s needs further like proper humans. There are limited resources (money, lands, expertise, etc) and we must share this with all of us. But because there are lots of discussion and tolerance among each team, the needs of each race and religion are being satisfied although not fully (which is impossible) and the cultures are alive.

      So that’s how we remain united and I hope the union would become as strong as before Pak Lah’s leadership started ruining Malaysia. He is one of Malaysia’s former Prime Minister by the way.

      Are The Malays being racist?

      In Islam (all Malays in Malaysia must be Muslims), being racist means you let your people to do bad things to other people who are not of the same race. To make it a priority to help your people is not racist unless it steps on other people’ rights.

      So, I don’t see how denying other race from the country throne can be considered as oppressing. They have never been suppressed by The Malays either. If they’ve been suppressed, do you think they would be able to build Buddha temples, Hindu temples, Churches, become the richest race in Malaysia, and freely practice their religions?

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  10. Let me introduce the correct term here now.

    Australoid would be correct. Not Melayu, Malay, or anything else. All those names are Tribes, or known as Puak regionally. That should be easy enough to understand.

    Peace

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    • Afraid not, Michael. Australoid refers to Aboriginal Australian and Papuans. The Malays, Filipinos, Indonesians and so on do not fit into this category. They would be considered closer to Mongoloid than Australoid, although both these labels are old-fashioned and don’t work all that well as clearly defined categories.

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      • Not really, Eurasian Sensation. The group you refer to fall under the Australo Melanesian. Technically speaking, they are of the African, Negroid cluster. The next nearest term which can describe “Melayu” would be Austronesians adn AustroAsiatic, but those are Linguistic terms which also describe the yellow skinned speakers of the Cambodian, Vietnamese, Thai, Lao countries. Their original people are Brown-skinned. And still live there in pockets. Look at the Cham, the Southern Thais, and so on.

        Peace

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      • S.Kanapathy says:

        From what I have read and understood, I think you are right Eurasian Sensation. Australoid mainly refers to people of negroid decent. The Malays, Filipinos, Indonesians and so on are of Mongoloid decent. Skin color, skull structure and body built will attest to it.

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      • I’m not sure where you getting your info Michael, but its a bit mixed up. The term “Australoid” is named after Australia and its indigenous people. And despite being black, they are genetically distinct from Africans.
        While there is Australoid genetic influence in Indonesia (particularly in the Eastern parts), Indonesian and Malaysian people are thoroughly Mongoloid. The Austronesian family has its ultimate origin in Southern China, via Taiwan. The Cham are indeed Austronesian (having arrived from Indonesia), but physically are not particularly distinct from many Khmer and Vietnamese (plenty of whom are “brown” rather than “yellow”.)
        The oldest inhabitants of SE Asia are the Negritos of Malaysia, Southern Thailand and the Andamans. They could be considered Australoid but they are quite different to the Austronesians.
        But as I stated before, these racial categories are no longer considered really valid in light of recent DNA evidence.

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      • Wow, then perhaps we can all learn a thing or two from you. Can you please state your source?

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      • Plenty of sources, and I really can’t be bothered listing them all, but I’m just giving you the generally accepted consensus. Encyclopedia Britannica or Wikipedia are easy places to start.

        This comment thread is probably not the place for an involved intellectual discussion about this – feel free to hit me up on the email (via my blog) if you wish. Judging from your articles I’ve read, most of your info is correct, but there’s a few bits where you seem to have got the wrong interpretation.

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  11. sgbertih says:

    He is neither.

    He is just a murderer. Tak caya ?? ALTANTUYA

    And I am the Kiyai Lompo from Gunung Lompobatang

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  12. James jame says:

    Najib is niether a bugis nor a Malay he is just a citizen of Malaysia. As a matter of fact no Malaysian Prime Miniters is a true blue Malay if you ask me.
    Tengku Abdul Rahman the first Prime Minister is of mixwd parentage Thai/Malay
    Tun Abdul Razak Hussien – the second Prime Minister is of Bugis origin and so not a Malay.
    Tun Hussien Onn the third Prime Minister is of Turkish origin.
    Tun Mahathir Mohamad Iskandar Kutty the fourth Prime Minister is of Indian origin.
    Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi the fifth Prime Minister is of mixed Arab Chinese Malay Origin.
    And now Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak is definitely of Bugis origin and not a Malay.
    As a matter of fact there was never a true blue Malay Presiden of UMNO and now the top leadership of UMNO is filled with “Melayu Culup” sahaja.

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    • apeirokalia says:

      I think it’s kinda good to know that these officials are of mixed origins. But why is it so important to publicize the ‘malay’-ness of a politician?

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      • Michel says:

        When a grouping is ethno-religious in nature (like the Malaysian concept of Malay-ness), the boundaries can indeed be fuzzy. If you’re Muslim, dark-skinned and claim to identify with the peninsular Malays then as I understand it UMNO considers you a Malay.

        Given that a not-insignificant proportion of Indonesian Javanese are Christians (just as there are Arab Christians), I wonder what would happen if one of them were to try to get naturalized in Malaysia. Javanese Muslim ==> Malay; Javanese Christian? Hmm.

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      • gewdgreef says:

        What would happen?

        Easy, his application would conveniently be “stuck” undergoing various vague processes.

        How long?

        The last count was 20 years and counting.

        A boy of aboriginal origins (East Malaysia) is still waiting for his NRIC. He applied for his NRIC 10 years ago. Whereas a illegal immigrant received their NRIC under 3 months of arriving in Malaysia.

        Go figure.

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    • datin aini says:

      So….. are they considered BUMIPUTRA for what they used to claim for their benefits as BUMIPUTRA…?? AND how do they define as BUMIPUTRA…??

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  13. greateagleOne says:

    There is no race but the HUMAN RACE and all blood are RED no blue or true blue.

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  14. Pembela Indonesia says:

    I don’t bother whether Najib is a Bugis man or a Malay. He’s a Malaysian regardless of his ethnicity. Is he trying to impress Indonesian people that Malaysia is “part” of Indonesia, so it will mellow the Indonesians, in case in the future if Malaysia steals the Indonesian pieces of culture again it won’t raise a great hue and cry???

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    • apeirokalia says:

      I don’t think it’s like that… Malaysians are very proud of their country. I don’t think they would want to publicize themselves as anything but Malaysians. A distinct country that needs not to be part of another country.

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      • Pembela_Indonesia says:

        Oh… well then… let’s see if the Malaysians will steal our culture again in the future to prove that they are solidly proud of their country or not….. ;)

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  15. Tulanlampah says:

    So, Najib is proud of his roots. Well and fine, but when the Chinese and Indians in Malaysia are proud of their roots too, how come they are asked to go back to Cina and India respectively??? Why the hypocracy, huh??? Being proud of our roots does not make us any less Malaysian, it just shows that one has a healthy self-esteem, and it builds up our identity. But at the end of the day, we are all living and making a living in Malaysia, so stop categorising all Malaysians as Bumiputeras and non-Bumiputeras, and give us all EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES!!! Until that happens, the Chinese will continue to cling to their Chinese-ness, and the Indians, their Indian-ness, and Malaysians will never realise their true potential, and Malaysia will never become an industrialised country. Stop Ketuanan Melayu – it is pure racism, and is apartheid in every sense of the word. We are not asking to be treated better, or differently. We are asking for everyone to be treated equally.

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  16. amoker says:

    No wonder we are importing INdonesians and Filipinos as PTIs in Sabah.

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  17. chinaman says:

    As a Chinaman, I know where my roots are…but as a Malay,,…they will never know..the British who wrote the Constitution made them what they are…a race without true roots! WHY?

    Because the constitution says: “A MALAY – A PERSON WHO IS A MUSLIM BY FAITH, PRACTICES MALAY CULTURE AND SPEAKS THE MALAY LANGUAGE”

    THAT IS WHAT MAKES A PERSON A MELAYU….SO SIMPLE!

    SO WE HAVE MILLIONS OF MELAYU’s …WHO ARE ACTUALLY NOT MELAYU’s !

    ANY PERSON CAN BECOME A MELAYU…PRACTICALLY ANYONE…

    AS LONG AS YOU ARE A MUSLIM, CAN SPEAK OR SAY “APA KHABAR” AND EAT WITH YOUR HANDS A BOWL OR PLATE OF RICE WITH SAMBAL BELACAN!”

    ASK ALL THE PRETTY ARTIST OF MALAYSIA WHO MARRIED THE BLACKS, WHITES, JAPANESE…ALL OF THEM CONVERTED TO ISLAM, EAT NASI LEMAK AND SAYS APA KHABAR THE LEAST THAT IS! OR BAGI SALAM AS A NORM!

    NING BAIZURA CAN VERIFY THIS I GUESS….

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    • apeirokalia says:

      Any chance of a change of constitution? Hehe… Just kidding.

      Like

    • NIM says:

      Dude, there’s nothing wrong with the constitution. Interracial marriage is normal in Malay society. There is no such thing as pure Malays even then unless you’re talking about the Proto Malays like Orang Kanaq, Temuan and Semelai (the aborigines of the Modern Malays). That’s why we Malays have so many different looks.

      Not to mention, Malays are generally very open compared to other races. That’s why they can accept people from other race as their own as long they practice the same culture and same religion (additional criteria in Malaysia only). The Mamak already exists long before Malaysia is formed, you know..

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  18. mank1221 says:

    Mongolian maybe?

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  19. chinaman says:

    BUGIS ARE ALL WELL KNOWN AS GOOD SEA FARING PERSONS…WONDER JIBBY KNOWS HOW TO EVEN SWIM? NOT TO MENTION SAIL?

    THE BUGIS ARE ALL ALSO REPUTED TO BE FIERCE FIGHTERS AND THEY WERE PIRATES WHICH WAS MOST FEARED THOSE DAYS IN THE HIGH SEAS!

    WONDER WHAT HE INHERITED FROM HIS ANCESTORS?

    RED LIPS AND FAT BUM MAYBE?

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  20. mae says:

    Unspun, being a blogger, is very stupid.

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    • apeirokalia says:

      why would you want to stoop so low as to lob personal abuses at the author without verifying your accusations? This only makes you seem stupid.

      Like

  21. gunungkinabalu says:

    SABAH CHIEF MINISTER A PAKISTANI…

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  22. fargoman says:

    Many malays don’t like to admit it, but once upon a time, they were not Muslims like everyone else!

    Malays were part of the migration of Polynesian peoples whose original home was Yunnan in China to South East Asia in what is known as Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia……….

    At that time the Orang Asli were already well settled in the malay Peninsula, so that makes them the most legitimate of the bumis.

    Malays were animists then for hundreds of years until Indians crossed Bay of Bengal to South East Asia and spread Indian and Hindu culture to the peoples there.

    Hence we had the great Hindu kingdoms which later also became Buddhist kingdoms of Langkasuka, Srivijaya, Majapahit – but main thing to note is that racially the peoples were malays and speak old malay language.

    Islam only came to South East Asia from 1400 after foundation of Malacca by Parameswara. Again from India crossed Bay of Bengal and spread Islam to South East Asia. Malacca sultans were among the first converts and the rest is history.

    Please note that the malays have been Muslims for only 600 years and have been Hindus/Buddhists very much longer – at least 2000 years. Malay culture is very much influenced by Hindu culture including Sanskrit words like the wayang kulit, raja, maharaja, etc.

    Unlike Javanese, who are proud of their Hindu/Buddhist past reflected in great empires like Srivijaya and Majapahit, malays are generally ashamed to dwell on their pre Islamic Hindu/Buddhist past.

    On the contrary some malays try to be like the Arab wannabes, trying to cleanse the malays of their Hindu/Buddhist past – in this even the songs and films of P Ramlee become victimized!

    If Islam had not come to South East Asia, malays would still be Hindus/Buddhists like the Balinese which is not a bad idea, as Balinese are considered very peaceful people.

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    • apeirokalia says:

      I have never asked my Malay friends about this, but would like to know why (if in fact they are as you say) ashamed of their Buddhist/ Hindu origins?

      I don’t agree that Islam was a bad thing for South East Asia. Any ideology (religion included) had very negative effects on mankind. Nazism and Stalinism has claimed more lives than Islam or Christianity. And Hinduism in Bali itself has structured the society to live in castes that are very beguiling for those of lower caste origins. The peace that resides in Bali is not because of Hinduism, but because the Hinduism developed by the Balinese is very peaceful. Hence the Balinese are the ones to be applauded here, not a non physical entity such as Hinduism. You could compare this with the Hinduism in India, which has a bloodied past and still maintains some minor extremist groups. And as for Buddhism.. Polpot was a Buddhist Monk.

      No, I think that whatever the religion or ideology, it all depends on the man carrying it out.

      Like

      • If only more people would think more like you do, then the world would be a much better place to live in. Unfortunately it’s always the “pissing contest” of “My god is better than your god” which drives people to kill each other with such venom and hatred which drives me nuts !!
        Look at this website if you can stomach it:

        http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/beheadings-r-us/

        WARNING !! EXTREMELY GRAPHIC VIDEOS IN THE ABOVE LINK !!!
        I nearly puked watching just the 1st video myself.

        Peace

        Like

      • Mohamad Abd Malik says:

        I have yet to come across a Malay who was ashamed that our ancestors were Hindus. Even today some of the Malay cultures were adopted Hindu cultures. E.g the bersanding ceremony, eating sireh, berinai etc. But it was not really an issue with them now. I think most non-muslims construed the malays’ putting islam ahead of race as being ashamed of being Hindus in the past.

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  23. oversee says:

    The name Melayu is an Indian word to denote hills or mountain range. There is a place in South India called Melayur.

    Indigenous people who marry Muslim Indians from Melayur identified themselves as Melayur.

    Over time, as the Malay kingdom spead through insular SEA, the word Melayur became simply as Melayu.

    If one were to do genetic test on the modern Malay in Peninsula Malaysia, they would invariably carry genetics from Indian to explain the darker complexion and kinky hair of most Malays as opposed to the Mongolid look of some Malays of original Malayo Polynesian, Dusun or Dayak stocks.

    The real natives or indigenous people of the Peninsula Malaysia can be found in the Northern parts of Peninusla Malaysia apart from the aborigines.

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  24. romsam says:

    It is no secret that Parameswara was an Indian and a Hindu prince until he married a Pasai princess and converted to Islam and adopted the Persian name Iskandar Shah.

    There seemed to be no problem telling the truth as I just expressed it during my school days. The school textbooks were quite clear on this – but not today, I am told.

    Once again the insecure Umno-led government had to wipe out any references to this famous Melaka prince as being Hindu and belonging to the powerful Hindu empire Srivijaya.

    So all of a sudden our museums, school textbooks etc, all refer to Parameswara as a malay prince. Umno lying, mind you, is not confined to the mainstream newspapers.

    Like

    • apeirokalia says:

      I’ve often had problems with school textbooks… They don’t always teach the truth these days ;P I still don’t understand why the Hindu/ Buddhist roots have to be concealed…

      Like

    • Ria says:

      Errr.. Srivijaya was a Buddhist kingdom, not Hindu. If you go to Palembang, Sumatra, where the ancient capital city was, you can see the artifacts. Not denying that there was already Indian/Hindu influence at the time, but pre-Islamic Malay people already existed in Sumatra. In fact, there was already a kingdom called the Malayu right next to it, along the river Melayu in Jambi. So Paramesvara was probably Malay. Google it.

      Like

    • Mohamad Abd Malik says:

      You were right. Parameswara was a Hindu prince. But he was a Malay from Palembang. At that time Hinduism was the religion of the Malays. Parameswara was a Hindu but by race he was not an Indian.

      There is a difference between the two.

      Like

  25. cool man says:

    This race stereotyping is actually the work of the present day government, headed by the Umno racist using race and religion as a tool to stay in power.

    The native of this land a.k.a. son of the soil are the native (Dusun, Iban, Kadazan, etc) of Borneo and the Orang Asli (Dayak, Jakun, Sakai, etc) in Peninsula. Not you malay arrogant pieces of shit!

    Before the arrival of Islam into Malaysia, the different races live in harmony without questioning race or religion. They may be cultural different but they accepted each other.

    After independence, race was used by the Umno racist, and then formulated the NEP, which divided everyone. The Umno fascist use Islam in schools, universities and workplaces to segregate, and in the name of fighting PAS.

    The modus operandi of Umno has always be, divide and rule, and the devil is in the detail and implementation of the religious department.

    Umno is king in creating diversion, when they are cornered, use race and religion. Race and religion is the most explosive issue and they have used it successfully since independence.

    All this is done to perpetuate their hold on political power. It is for Umno benefits to play the race card, because this is the only way to ensure their hold on to political power. And 50 long years have proven them right. The race card works well and works every time!

    They have succeeded in keeping the races apart socially, and fanned animosity amongst the races with their discriminatory and racist politics.

    All give politically reasoning – well here goes a correct one – malay is lazy because of Islam.

    How can one pray 5 times and yet be expected to be productive? Wait for the foreigners to come and set up their factory and having to cater for Islam needs!

    If malays embrace other religion then there is hope for Malaysia otherwise your hope is in the existence of Umno terrorist liars – don’t count on them being there forever – we are factoring in Umno racist absence in our business plan!

    The problem with malays is that they forget too easily. It was the Chinese, Indians and Malays who fought for the independence.

    The NEP was design to help the malays catch up with the Chinese and the Indians. Now looks like after 40 years, malays are still behind and very proud of it.

    Still want to receive handouts from the government! Still afraid to fight it out on fair ground with the Chinese, Indians and other races! Fearful is the malay race!

    Without the government subsidies and supports – I don’t know how many malay businesses will still stand? So when can we see some towering malays and who dare to refuse government help and still succeed?

    Grabbing other people success and call it your own success is not success but a disgrace!

    Their laziness caused the nation economy to slump and resources are wasted. They take 5 days to complete a day work. Malays always think that they are helping the other races when they are lazy. For God sake, please wake up! You are doing it for your own, not for anybody!

    Majority of the nation need to be educated again. On the meaning of Malaysia.

    Like

    • apeirokalia says:

      Cool man… stay cool. I’ve met many Malay’s who aren’t ‘pieces of shit’. I find them to be very kind and considerate… And definitely not lazy.

      Although I do agree that the government does not act in a fair way when it comes to subsidies and state funds. But that is the Government, people who vote have the power to change that.

      Like

    • apeirokalia says:

      I don’t agree with UMNO policy and I really do think Malaysians as a whole would be a very successful people when not bounded by ethnicity. And I think it is right for you to say that UMNO dishes out some very ‘divide et impera’ policies. But your comment below just aids that ‘divide et impera’ and makes UMNO come out on top everytime:

      “All give politically reasoning – well here goes a correct one – malay is lazy because of Islam.
      How can one pray 5 times and yet be expected to be productive? Wait for the foreigners to come and set up their factory and having to cater for Islam needs!
      If malays embrace other religion then there is hope for Malaysia otherwise your hope is in the existence of Umno terrorist liars – don’t count on them being there forever – we are factoring in Umno racist absence in our business plan!”

      If you have a problem with the policies that divide ordinary Malaysians, then bridge it, reach out to the Malays and Muslims that you hate so much. Don’t add smoke to a burning fire.

      Personally, I think your comment is rife in racism and exudes inferior arrogance.

      Like

    • Mohamad Abd Malik says:

      Well it seems that you are full of venom and hatred. I am no UMNO member and nor do I vote for them. But it is people like you that really ensures that UMNO remains in power. With extremist like you around UMNO does’nt need any opposition parties.

      You do not disguise your anti islam stance. To begin with – are you really that successful? I doubt it. I think you are only a normal working man like the majority of the population. So you should look at yourself in the mirror, particularly your attitude. There are many non malay muslims who were succssfull despite the NEP. If there were smart enought to do so why not you. Being venomous toward others won’t solve the problem. Particularly your problem.

      You should reflect on yourself.

      Like

    • NIM says:

      You’ve already put your feet in your mouth. The Jakun, Semelai, Orang Kuala, Orang Kanaq are the aborigines for the Modern Malays. So they’re still native.

      Like

  26. San says:

    Malay history start from Parameswara who escape from Indonesia and settle in Melaka. During his time, Laksamana Cheng Ho visit Melaka seven times.

    Melaka need the protection of the China from the invasion of the Siamese. Without Cheng Ho, there won’t be malay history, instead you have Siam history.

    I pity Malaysian Muslims, you probably are the least free people in this world! Even Indonesian Muslims are allowed to practice apostasy when therecalcitrant.

    Like

    • Mohamad Abd Malik says:

      Well maybe I am wrong but I can’t remember Siam ever attacking or even contemplating attacking Malacca in those days. Kedah or Kelantan – maybe yes. But not Malacca. Malacca was a thriving city at that time and people came to trade. Including Cheng Ho.

      Anyway the Portuguese attacked and ruled Malacca for hundreds of years. Please do not tell me that Cheng Ho was unable to do anything then.

      Like

  27. ruyom says:

    Malays have done wonders in terms of denying truth, while doing so, through policies of government raked in ill wealth for years. Malays are rich, I mean really rich.

    Malays had certain qualities that other races in this country do not, but I must emphasise “had”. Qualities such as “speaking less”, contended, know how to read and understand the holy Quran (I know that nowadays Muslim kids spent 10 years of religious classes in school and end up not knowing).

    But all done and said, the day malays deny their past, is the beginning of their end. Malays were Hindus once, as was the whole South East Asia, later some South East Asia went for Buddhism while the others went for Islam.

    Who taught South East Asia races to plant paddy in a systematic manner? Who taught South East Asia races language skills, reading and writing?

    The very essence of everything that South East Asia races are based on till today was taught by Tamils. Don’t you guys notice that South East Asia races have similar writing codes, that are because it is based on Tamil. It even sounds like Tamil.

    For peninsula: Tamils called the local inhabitants as “malai allu”, basically means “people who dwell in the hills”, this would mean Orang Asli, for they dwell in the hills, what is known as malays today was non-existent.

    As malays are well known to do, they incorporated this term “malai” whence they started to land in the peninsula from Nusantara, and claimed the term “malai” as their own. This race has this peculiar trait of claiming that which is not theirs.

    Deny this, and you deny your past, anyone who denies his past, denies his future. Malays……….be my guest.

    Guess who is the master race? The master race doesn’t doing some weird policy (NEP), or go around brandishing some knife, which if you really put some thinking into it, put the race on a sure path to beggary.

    The reason why I commented as above is because I want malays to know that they are not tuan punya tanah.

    For myself, as a Tamil, I will state what my forbearers have done centuries before, the truth is, no one owns this land, this land is owned only by – the one and only one – God.

    This soil needs administration, not ownership. Accept that.

    Like

    • Let’s not turn this into a pissing contest. Next you’ll be saying Tamils invented the spaceship.

      It’s true that Indian civilisation (including but not only the Tamils) has had a strong influence on SE Asian culture, historically. But so has Chinese. And believe it or not, SE Asians did actually develop a culture of their own – they didn’t just borrow everything from their bigger neighbours.

      The country with the most similar culture to Malaysia and Indonesia is the Philippines, a place where Indian influence was minimal.

      Rice farming, far from being introduced by Tamils, was taking place in SE Asia long before any Tamils got there. It is most likely to have filtered down from Southern China, rather than India.

      “Who taught South East Asia races language skills, reading and writing?”
      What, were SE Asians a bunch of dimwitted cavemen without language until Tamils blessed them with the ability to speak?

      And SE Asian languages sounding like Tamil? Pfft. Malay, Thai, Khmer, Burmese are all completely different to each other, and have even less similarity to Tamil.

      Don’t get me wrong, I have no beef with Tamils – there is much in Tamil history and culture to be respected. (Besides, my significant other is a Tamil.) And I’m no Malay supremacist either. But if you are going to spout blatant historical inaccuracies, I have to correct you.

      Like

  28. Peter Raj says:

    I think every Malaysian should visit the Bujang Valley ruins situated near Gurun in Kedah.it is the remanants of the mighty Hindu civilisation around 1100-1200.I saw even ststues of Hindu Gods like Ganesh, temple altars etc in the 1970’s.In 1990’s when I visited much of the statutes were missing.Doesn’t any civilised human realise that this place should be the prime tourist destination being so historical?Yet its is not promoted.Why? Indonesia is proud of Borobodur and parambrahman temples.Are they in any way less a muslim than the muslims here?Is it an attempt to blackout history that proves Malays were Hindus before the 1400s?History cannot be erased.I heard the former UMNO Perak MB mentioning of Ganga Nagar a Hindu kingdom in Perak and another Penggaram a Hindu kingdom in Johore.why are these places not listed as historical sites and promoted as tourist sites? Can someone in the Tourist Industry explain?Are they in any way inferior than the Dutch churches and Portuguese fort in Malacca? These kingdoms existed during the Chola Empire in South India.They include kingdoms in all of South-east Asia.I pray that Malays take pride in history and accept history as a fact.

    Like

    • apeirokalia says:

      You just promoted them!

      As a tourist, I would very much like to visit these places… In Kedah you say?

      Like

    • koko says:

      I am a Malay and I don’t know how the misunderstanding that Malay ashame that there were Hindu (but we are not Indian though!) or Buddhist in the past come about. Yeah, its our ancestors religion in the past and we don’t ashame of it and the last time I check (quite recently) its still in school history book, and our religion now is Islam and we also proud of it. We even take proud of our pre-islamic history, just as we take proud of our islamic era sultanate like Malacca, Johore, Acheh, Kedah, etc. What is it to you anyway, what you going to benefit if we take pride or not our past histories. Its our past histories not yours anyway. Something just smell fishy.

      Like

  29. mak jun yeen says:

    To ask this question is to ask whether the Cantonese are Han Chinese or actually Vietnamese?

    Or to ask whether Ryan Giggs is Welsh or African (yes he claims to have an African slave to be his great grand father)

    Or whether President Obama is Kenyan, white Anglo Saxon Celt, or Cherokee?

    Or whether Prince Charles is German (her mother descended from Germans from the royal families of Saxony) or French or Greek (his father descended from royal family from Greece).

    All stupid questions because the House of Lords in the Sikh Boys case held the you can be born of English, raised as an Irish, married into a Jewish race and be still be buried as Malay.

    GO READ HISTORY

    Like

    • Hi, Jun Yeen, we’ve crossed swords on occasion before. The 5 Races in the world are The Caucasoids, The Negroids, The Australaoids, The Mongolids and the Dravidoid. All other definitions are mere Semantic banter.

      Like

  30. apeirokalia says:

    Michael Chick :
    If only more people would think more like you do, then the world would be a much better place to live in. Unfortunately it’s always the “pissing contest” of “My god is better than your god” which drives people to kill each other with such venom and hatred which drives me nuts !!
    Look at this website if you can stomach it:
    http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/beheadings-r-us/
    WARNING !! EXTREMELY GRAPHIC VIDEOS IN THE ABOVE LINK !!!
    I nearly puked watching just the 1st video myself.
    Peace

    I’m sorry Michael Chick. But that site does seem Islamophobic. I used to be a Muslim, but I renounced it because I lost faith in religion as a whole (I’ve been studying Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. since I was a kid, cause I really didn’t have any faith in organized religion but still tried to find it, until I finally became honest and realized that I jsut don’t have faith). But from my experiences, the religion really doesn’t count.

    Your website blames Islam (Muslims), and says they are trying to kill everyone else (Me included, because I am a Kafir). But I come from a Muslim family, my mother wears a headscarf. She knows I’m an unbeliever. She doesn’t make me pray, although she still prays for me to believe again. She knows I drink. And yet my head is still sitting on top of my body and no caning has been involved ;P

    And if you study the holy books of all religions, each and every individual has their own way of interpreting it. And each holy book, no matter the religion, has some passages that are violent. It’s a matter of setting your priorities straight. Is beheading someone more important than feeding the poor? Is caning a beer drinker more important than providing for your family? Is punishing a daughter for not believing more important than praying for her? According to my devout Muslim mother it isn’t.

    Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, etc. has many faces. Most often than not, when you get to know them, the faces are quite pretty :-)

    Like

    • Hey, it’s not my website. I just bumped into it while trolling the internet…

      Peace

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        Sorry for the misunderstanding then…

        My friend also sent me this video once of a beheading in Saudi Arabia… Not nice stuff.

        That is one kingdom I would like to see invaded….

        Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        Sorry for the misunderstanding ;P

        My friend sent me a video of a baheading in Saudi Arabia once… Puked my head off… That’s one Kingdom that needs an invasion…

        Like

  31. apeirokalia says:

    Michael Chick :
    Politics and Corrupt Practices, my dear. It’s all about the money. And they seem to show it to themselves all the time, and create every excuse to do so.

    Money is always the ultimate evil ;P

    Like

  32. gombang says:

    Wow, so many comments. Somehow I got these impressions from the comments: (1) so much bile for Malays and Muslims (2) Malaysia is so fucked up ;)

    Like

  33. Hey, no problem. That happens to the best of us sometimes… I think the link carries that one. I believe it also shows the Christians Girl in Indonesia decapitated as well. There’s no logic in that. The latest being the beheading of the school teacher in the Philippines. I think they captured a few more people. You heard about the Women who wear Bras being whipped in public, for promoting “falsehood”?

    Like

  34. apeirokalia says:

    Pembela_Indonesia :
    Oh… well then… let’s see if the Malaysians will steal our culture again in the future to prove that they are solidly proud of their country or not…..

    Oh come off it… Everyone’s culture has interspersed with other cultures before. As Godard would say “It’s not where you take things from-it’s where you take them to”.

    Lets not make this a pissing contest of ‘I did that first!’

    Like

    • Pembela_Indonesia says:

      Oh… well then…. but obviously it seems to me that they are less proud of their original culture, it makes me so sure that they are not solidly proud of their country as what you claim! :lol:

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        How is it obvious that they are less proud of their original culture? Where is the backup for your statement? what is their original culture? Even Malay and international scholars are still debating this, so I wouldn’t claim to know what it is. Do you?

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        they are still confused what is their original culture?.. wow..

        Like

      • Pembela Indonesia says:

        And how is it obvious that they are really proud of their own country whereas they have to ‘steal’ others’ pieces of culture?

        Next time they tell the world that noodles are Malaysian but of course they don’t want to do that because they don’t regard Chinese culture as part of Malaysian culture despite the fact that millions of Chinese have long existed in Malaysia! :lol:

        Like

      • NIM says:

        Do you have problem reading or what? Culture belongs to one race not place. There are Malays in Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia and Philippines. All of them have Batik. Are you going to accuse the Brunei and Philippines as thieves too?

        Like

    • Pembela_Indonesia says:

      apeirokalia :
      Fine by me. I’m not the one that brought it up in the first place.
      You wanna play to the Indonesian media’s hysterics then fine by me. I see that this has turned into a debat kusir and no matter how many reading references I give not one of them registers with you guys.
      No more will I direct my comments for you or wahyu.

      Obviously there is a frustration in your comment but it is you yourself who reduced the quality of the debate by taking it far and wide. You introduced quotes that have barely something to do with your initial post to my initial post above. Okay, steering clear of beating about the bush let’s go back to this Unspun’s article in relation to your comment: “Malaysians are very proud of their country. I don’t think they would want to publicize themselves as anything but Malaysians. A distinct country that needs not to be part of another country.”

      It is clearly stated in this article that this Najib thingy was visiting Sulawesi to have a nostalgic moment in the island. How does that one say that he is not identified with Indonesia to some extent?? Is he proud to be identified with an Indonesian?? There is a contradiction between this article and your comment! If Malaysians are solidly proud of their own country and don’t need to publicize themselves as ‘part’ of Indonesians, this Najib thingy of course will not return to the land of his ancestors. But , s’il vous plaît, don’t twist your upcoming (if any) argument with the like of “everyone has the right to do what he likes…bla..bla..bla..”. To me, being proud of my country I don’t care whether this Najib would visit his Indonesian ancestor’s land or not, I don’t need to be identified with a Malaysian, let alone with this Najib… :lol:

      Like

    • Mohamad Abd Malik says:

      I find the ‘stealing’ accusations quite perplexing. For one, a large portion of the Malays in Malaysia ( particularly in the West Coast of the Peninsular ) were decendants of the Javanese, Banjarese, Minangkabaus, Kampars, Achenese, Bugis, Mendailings, etc. Don’t they have the right to practice their cultures brought over by their ancestors? Look at our former Ministers – The late Datuk Saadon Jubir. The late Mohamad Rahmat and of course the current ex MB Khir Toyo. Not to mention the State of Negeri Sembilan.

      Are we to tell them that since their ancestors migrated to Malaysia hundreds of years ago they can no longer practice their cultures since this would be tantamount to ‘stealing’.

      What about the Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Melayu? Next, someone would say that we ‘stole’ the language from Indonesia. It would never end.

      Like

      • wahyu says:

        that’s the funny part.. when malay malaysian in a situation against the chinese and indian they will say we are the malay we are the native of this land.. but when they are have a problem with indonesia they will say we are actually bugis, minang, or javanese our ancestors migrated from their homeland to malaysia..

        Like

      • Pembela_Indonesia says:

        I didn’t say that you Malaysians must do away with your Indonesian forebears’ traditions. But if you Malaysians say something like Rendang, Reog Ponorogo and what not originate from Malaysia, that’s another story in that it’s the most ridiculous part! Kapish? ;)

        Like

  35. apeirokalia says:

    Michel :
    When a grouping is ethno-religious in nature (like the Malaysian concept of Malay-ness), the boundaries can indeed be fuzzy. If you’re Muslim, dark-skinned and claim to identify with the peninsular Malays then as I understand it UMNO considers you a Malay.
    Given that a not-insignificant proportion of Indonesian Javanese are Christians (just as there are Arab Christians), I wonder what would happen if one of them were to try to get naturalized in Malaysia. Javanese Muslim ==> Malay; Javanese Christian? Hmm.

    That’s what I have kinda been wondering about… Good point.

    Like

  36. random_eskimo says:

    why?
    because malaysia is the only country in the world where it’s constitution are distinctly influenced/affective/critical-of race.
    meaning?
    if you’re a melayu you have one set of constitutional rights, if you’re not, you have another.
    example?
    lots… just look it up.
    definition of a melayu?
    by the constitution of the federation of malaya a melayu is defined as : born in tanah melayu (peninsular malaysia – a.k.a. malaya), speaks bahasa melayu as his/her native tounge and of islamic faith.
    so?
    regardless of your ethnic ancestry you may be constitutionally recognized as a melayu by simply being born here, speak the language and be a muslim. tadaa..
    all you need to enjoy all the benefits as a constitunional malay is :
    – a legitimate malaysian birth certificate
    – speak melayu extensively. you may keep your mother tongue as a second language
    – a legitimate conversion to islam and make sure it’s printed in your ic. you may choose to believe and practice otherwise (as is a lot of ethnic melayus nowadays).

    just my two cents worth.
    -a random eskimo (that is also a melayu according to the constitution and i’m not complaining)

    Like

    • apeirokalia says:

      That makes perfect sense then to say that it is not an anthropological or biological sense of race, but a matter of constitutional law.

      Case closed… I’d say

      Like

      • Truly it is so sad. If you want to read more in detail, look here:

        http://www.library.ohiou.edu/sea/blog/?p=302

        In his book, the author states,”…If it is so easy to become a ‘malay’, then it must be equally easy to NOT become a ‘malay’…”, so, just like you, apeirokalia, you have ceased to be a ‘malay’ by the definition. And that is why no level-minded thinking scientist can agree with the Malaysian definition of ‘malay’. Or is it better known as “MalingSia” in Indonesia? Hahaha

        Like

  37. apeirokalia says:

    Michael Chick :
    Truly it is so sad. If you want to read more in detail, look here:
    http://www.library.ohiou.edu/sea/blog/?p=302
    In his book, the author states,”…If it is so easy to become a ‘malay’, then it must be equally easy to NOT become a ‘malay’…”, so, just like you, apeirokalia, you have ceased to be a ‘malay’ by the definition. And that is why no level-minded thinking scientist can agree with the Malaysian definition of ‘malay’. Or is it better known as “MalingSia” in Indonesia? Hahaha

    As an Indonesian I feel a bit uneasy about using the ‘malingsia’ term, even if it is just for a joke ;P i know my malaysian friends wouldn’t like it… But thanks for the book reference. Will definitely be looking out for it :-)

    Like

  38. apeirokalia says:

    It’s a very intriguing matter… this ‘malay’ ness. Definitely interesting stuff.

    Like

  39. apeirokalia says:

    Pembela_Indonesia :
    Oh… well then… let’s see if the Malaysians will steal our culture again in the future to prove that they are solidly proud of their country or not…..

    Y’know… As an Indonesian… Sometimes it embarrasses me how some Indonesian’s are so blind to nationalistic narrow mindedness and the euphoric media, having no mind of their own! Do some research. There was no ‘culture’ stolen. It’s like saying that because the Kanji came from mandarin script the Japanese stole Chinese culture! That is HOW CULTURE SURVIVES by being adopted and developed using other peoples narratives combined with the original narrative. And all those stories from the Indonesian media about the angklung and whatnot… You only have to read it once to see that they were intentionally inflammatory and written without any proof or backup. There is no credible source to prove their provocations.

    Read: ‘Imagined Communities’ by Benedict Anderson.

    And may I remind you what culture really is:

    # An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning

    # The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group

    Dances, musical instruments, traditional clothing, etc. They are all just instruments of culture. Not culture itself. Culture is a practice… A behavior… Values… This is what culture is and a lot of Indonesians don’t understand that.

    For further insight read: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/9/10/focus/4682849&sec=focus

    It’s an Indonesian explaining very articulately that this ‘feud’ of culture between Indonesia and Malaysia is highly unnecessary.

    But this has already been going on in another blog post. SO I’ll leave it there.

    Like

    • wahyu says:

      hmm i think japan kanji is different with chinese.. they don’t fully adopt it and rename it as japan kanji..

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        that is the whole point. but it was adopted from chinese script. and still maintains many traits from the original chinese. nothing that anyone should have to be ashamed of or feud over.

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        that’s the point they adopt it but not copy and rename it.. there is a local content in it which is enriched the culture.. and nothing to be ashamed wth that.. but is there local content in culture adopted by malaysia.. is malaysian enriched the culture.. batik in javanese is not just a fancy fabric it has function in javanese society.. wayang is used for maintaining javanese values among javanese society.. and keris has spritual meaning in javanese society.. can javanese easily understand the definition of batik being shallowed for all fancy fabric using wax dyeing technique.. ignoring the values on the batik..

        Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        … and there aren’t any Javanese Malays practicing this in Malaysia … course not… the newspapers and anthropology books are all mistaken… no bugis there either… or other such minority groups that the dutch and british uprooted to Malaysia… And even if there were, they are now Malays… so they don’t count…

        And the Surinamese don’t do Wayang…

        See? I have a sense of humor too… But mine is more cynical and sarcastic…

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        wow you’re fast.. when i see warisan.gov there is no javanese, minang, sundanese culture there are just malay cultures.. and how the javanese malaysian as you said tell a wayang story of ramayana or mahabharata in malaysia.. i’m curious..

        Like

    • Pembela Indonesia says:

      of course no culture is stolen. Japan had never claimed that kanji is theirs, but Malaysians do try to tell the world that tari reog ponorogo, for instance, is theirs! that’s the difference between Malaysia and the rest of the world. Of course they can adopt our culture as much as they like as long as they tell the truth about the whole nuts and bolts about their adopted culture to the world… don’t simply state that it is Malaysian otherwise they only fool themselves…. If I’m a Malaysian I would be ashamed for doing that… :lol:

      Ok… this nest is closed. I would only reply on the above nest from now on… to make discussion more focused. Do you see our previous nest above?? Let’s go back there!

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        Fine by me. I’m not the one that brought it up in the first place.

        You wanna play to the Indonesian media’s hysterics then fine by me. I see that this has turned into a debat kusir and no matter how many reading references I give not one of them registers with you guys.

        No more will I direct my comments for you or wahyu.

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        what references.. a book about nationalism with western context.. an article from thestar the most notably neutral mewspaper in malaysia.. or all the statement about state constitution which is misleaded.. if you do the research you’ll know about article 153 in malaysian constitution.. and please state the article on germany and turkey constitution which explain definition of race in their country.. you do the research right.. it’s funny how you see indonesian who questioning how their neighbour country define their culture and identity which in fact give impact to indonesian identity as hysterical.. yes it’s stupid how indonesian media exaggerate the cultural issue.. but how malaysian define their culture and identity is stupid too.. the stupidity which will make this cultural issue never resolved.. ignoring this and just point out the indonesian hysterical action will never resolve the problem because it’s not only the roots of the problem..

        Like

  40. apeirokalia says:

    I think my comment got caught again… it’s not showing up… oh, well…

    Like

  41. mak jun yeen says:

    Just saw that Chinaman comment that he know where his roots are.

    What a load of bull.

    Some Chinamen are descended from people who came from Mongolia, Tunguska and Siberia.

    If you are a “Li” chances are you are descended from Tang Emperors who had penchants for Iranian wives. There fore you can count one of those hairy burly Persians as your forebears.

    Bruce Lee (descended from Tang Emperors) had very very recent Jewish, Dutch and Russian great grand parents. That explain his caucasian good looks instead of the flat nosed sepets.

    Not to mention Bruce’s cousin Stanley Ho whose Dutch Jewish forebears combine with his Portuguese and Chinese ancestors producing a fun and party loving tycoon with a natural instinct for loving and handling money.

    Lee Kuan Yew (another descendant of Tang emperors) has very recent Javanese and native Bornean blood from both his parents.

    All claim to be true blue Chinamen knowing their roots.

    Haha

    Like

  42. mak jun yeen says:

    To random Esk

    Malaysia is not the only country that has definition for a particular race in her constitution.

    Israel and until very recently Germany too.

    Like

    • wahyu says:

      malaysia.. the israel of south east asia.. that’s irony..

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        actually it’s not just israel or germany. turkey also has it and so has iran, saudi arabia, some of the emirate states, and i could go on.

        you seem to be commenting with provocation. do you enjoy avoiding debate ad infinitum ad nauseum?

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        okay you really don’t have sense of humour.. let’s get serious.. i think random esk means that the definition of race in malaysia of race brings inequality for its citizen.. so pointing that other state also has definition of race in their constitution is irrelevant.. are germany and turkey have race-based discrimination in their constitution.. but i think israel has it..

        Like

  43. apeirokalia says:

    wahyu :
    they are still confused what is their original culture?.. wow..

    Don’t twist my words around to mean something else.

    Like

    • wahyu says:

      hmm.. what is your words mean.. what i can get from your words is the original culture of malaysia is still debatable.. how they can proud of something that still debatable.. actually your words give pembela negara an answer..

      Like

      • apeirokalia says:

        every culture is going through debates… especially with the onslaught of globalization and recent demographic trends in populations. let’s take for instance indonesia… in my five years of studying industrial design in bandung, the thing that we never touch is an ‘indonesian’ product. we can do padang products. sunda products. but once we say we are making something based on the ‘indonesian way’ then our professors kill us during presentation because it’s so highly debatable as to assuage constant friction.

        then you go to cambodia and thailand. and boy do they have conflicting narratives of culture and the debates going on about that are so provocative as to merit bloodshed on their borders.

        are cambodians, thais, or indonesians less proud of the culture that they do recognize just because its still being debated?

        if that culture isn’t being debated then it’s dead.

        Hence my comments totally refute statements by pembela negaras’ and yourselfs’ outrageous claim that Malaysians have no pride.

        Like

      • wahyu says:

        hmm i see what i think about original culture is culture with originally from malaysia region like melayu semenanjung, malaysian aborigin or iban and kadazan culture.. are they proud with that.. when i read peter raj comment i think they don’t..

        Like

  44. apeirokalia says:

    wahyu :
    okay you really don’t have sense of humour.. let’s get serious.. i think random esk means that the definition of race in malaysia of race brings inequality for its citizen.. so pointing that other state also has definition of race in their constitution is irrelevant.. are germany and turkey have race-based discrimination in their constitution.. but i think israel has it..

    Your statement (or joke as you call it) that malaysia is the israel of south east asia is highly provocative considering malaysia is a muslim country and to be seen as the israel of south east asia is no joke. in this context i am grateful that my sense of humour is nothing like yours.

    Also, as you will see from my previous comments, i have already stated how unfair the Malaysian government is to other races and minorities.

    With regard to the constitution:
    The ones who are baring the brunt of the stick are actually the Malays themselves. The constitution merely states who is a Malay and hence Muslim. By doing that it means there is no religious freedom for Malays (as pointed out by previous commentators).

    You are attributing the unfairness to the wrong subject. The policy of UMNO is unfair and racist (Malay Superiority). Is the constitution racist? It is racial, but it does not demote other races or reduce their circumstances. It is not like the Apartheid. Just because it defines ‘malays’ does not mean it designates in law that other races are inferior or are not given certain human rights and opportunities because of this. My adding in Turkey, Emirate States, Saudi Arabia, and Israel are examples without the above explanation.

    Like

  45. wahyu says:

    is it provocative because malaysia is muslim country and i said it has similiraty with israel which it is.. i’m sorry for that.. i think malaysia constitution give special position to the malays and bumiputera so it’s discriminative..

    Like

  46. DIASPORA says:

    There are too many similarities with Israel and Malaysia. Both prasctise virulent discriminatory practices. Like the Jews it says that Muslims should not mix with Infidels. It has an apartheid policy which closely resembles Isralel with Palestinians and the Arabs.

    Malays or so called persons who live on the charity of the other citizens ( may not be the very right nomencalature) were previously Hindus and Buddhists which they are taight in schools and madrassas to reject. History in Malaysia for students starts surreptitously from the year 1982 only. All the rest are ignored. Both Israel and Malays follow the Abrahamic religion as the origin of their worlds. Hence their thinking cannot differ very much in most aspects.

    The country is riddled with corruption at all levels. It has a bloated Civil Service with everyone at sight being a Dato or something like that. To accommodate the Civil servants buildings, furnitures, toilets, canteens; pensions; hospitals are required and all these sap the ordinary citizen to look after the Civil Servants and a bloated Police Force and Corruption Commission. Unwanted and unnecessary Departments; Bureaus; State Owned Companies and Subsidiary Companies etc are created to accommodate these non zealous specimens of the civil service.

    Sad to say that this is a political necessity as the Civil Service provides a vital Vote Bank for the ruling party. So does the Army and Police who Vote ‘By Post”. Think about – Vote By Post. The Opposition has NO CHANCE.

    About the Judiciary nothing much needs to be said. Everyone knows about its standing in the eyes of the citizens and others throughout the world.

    Like

  47. gombang says:

    A good reading for answering this question would be a paper authored by Jan van der Putten for Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, “A Malay of Bugis Ancestry: Haji Ibrahim’s Strategies of Survival”. The paper describes how the Bugis families positioned themselves in Malay world (particularly, the Riau-Lingga sultanate), as “Malay of Bugis ancestry”.

    Like

  48. Bugis is Melayu, Melayu is Bugis.

    Like

  49. Pelangi says:

    What is Najib? It depends, whether you are a creationist or evolutionist. If creationist then he is a Caucasoid, if you believe in Darwin then he is Negroid :)

    Like

  50. Sinta says:

    Almost all Indonesians are of Malay ethnicity, including Bugis. We are proto Malays and the culture derived from Malay, therefore ethnically we are Malays. Chinese, Arab or native eastern Indonesians aren’t. In daily conversations when we Indonesians call someone orang Melayu we mostly mean by culture, therefore we mean the people in Riau (and not Kalimantan), only because they still use the old language and practice the old culture. So to answer your question, yes, Najib is by ethnic considered orang Melayu in Indonesia. I hope this clears your confusion.

    Like

    • Freewill says:

      Wrong … in Indonesia never will a Sundanese consider him/herself a Malay. Neither will a Javanese, a Batak, a Minang, an Aceh, etc. Orang Melayu is mostly people from Riau or Kalimantan. A Bugis will remain a Bugis wherever s/he lives. There are so many cases where a Minang who cannot even speak Minang remain to consider himself a Minang. Similar cases in other ethnic groups.

      Had there not been this “Malay = Muslim” policy in Malaysia, there is a good chance that Najib Razak will continue to call himself a Bugis.

      Like

  51. Cipu says:

    I think he is Malaysian as well as Bugis. Nationality is off course different than ethnic. Someone may have them both, right?

    But what interesting is that If He is Bugis, why should he visit Gowa not Bone. Gowa doesn’t belong to Bugis ethnic, Gowa belongs to Makassar ethnic.

    I am Bugis. I have many relatives there and my Dad used to work in Malaysia when he was young. The migration of Bugis to Malaysia has been occurring since decades ago.

    So, it is just like the Javanese who live in Suriname.

    Nice posting

    Like

  52. ksgoh says:

    Never mind whether he is a Bugis or Melayu. Utmost important, he must walk the talk of 1Malaysia not talk & walk away from what he promote.

    Like

  53. jc10 says:

    UMNO have alot of mamaks anyway.so,no different if najis is bugis or not.they all think they malays.to me,UMNO=Unite MAMAK National Organisation

    Like

  54. DingDong says:

    I agree with the opinion that many young Malaysians are more incline to see themselves along class line rather than ethnic/racial line.Rich,middle or poor.

    Many young people are even pushing for 1 schooling system as oppose to the current system where there r multiple system to choose from.Quite ironic actually,40 years ago the young(now 60+ yrs old) were pushing for separate system.Every race wants to preserve their identity.

    Najib is a Malay in Malaysia and a Bugis in Indonesia..The Malays in Malaysia don’t classify themselves into different ethnic e.g minang,bugis,batak,boyan,jawa,melayu etc..Melayu is basically a 3 in 1 so to speak..hehehe..Quite syok eh to be a Malay..hehehe..I look forward to get the 7% discount when buying my 1st house..(*_*)wink2..just poking for fun..y so serius rite..

    Like

  55. OrangKampung says:

    I been reading this malayu issue May I ask who are the Malayu? They are the people of the SEAN but of difference nationalities, races, cultures, traditions and beliefs but all are GOD CREATIONS > —-
    What about the RULES OF LAWS > There is no man great than the beggar on the street, everyone turned to dust
    MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, HINDUS AND SO FORE are the MINSTERS and the RICHS IMMORTAL besides your SOUL

    Like

  56. Rondom Rantas says:

    All people residing in Malaya are Malays, including the Chinese, Indians, Bugis, Jawa, Siam, etc. It is very simple. Sabahan are people from Sabah, including the Dusunkadazan, Murut, Chinese, etc. Same as Sarawakian from Sarawak. We don,t have to rely on the German historian or the Malay archipelago because once you do that, everyone in South east asia are Malays. So make it simple like Malays are from Malaya, Sabahan fron Sabah and Sarawakian from Sarawak. Those so called bugis or jawa from malaya doesn,t want the chinese and indians to be called malay because they are not muslims. This is bullshit. There is nothing like that in the Koran and United Nation’s law. They simply make it to put muslim beyond other religion. These are all craps and smell like rotten.

    Like

  57. mak jun yeen says:

    Pointless arguments.

    Is Bruce Lee Chinese, Duthch/Jewish/ Russian or American?

    Is Catherine Freeman Australian Aborigine or English or Chinese?

    Bruce Lee is Chinese because he could choose to be one and the fact he was a martial artist mega star that kick “white” butts made the Chinese accept him as theirs, otherwise like his grand parents from his mother side they would have been cast aside as “Chap Cheng” not fit to be descedant of the dragons.

    Catherine Freeman is aborigine because she was brought up as one, her country treats her as an aborigine or at least a mixed breed but the Aborigine accepts her fully as a aborigine despite her colourful ancestry, that does not stoo her for being proud of her English and Chinese ancestry.

    Najib is Malay because he can choose to be Malay and the malays accepts him as a malay. He does not have to give up ties to his Bugis forebears.

    The diffrence in Indonesian is that in Malaysia, the ethnic identity presage on economic and political competition between Malays and Chinese, therefore you would have to choose to join one or the other.

    In Indonesia the competition is between Javanese and every one else, Minang vs Bugis vs Malay in Sumatra, Madurese vs Malay/ Dayak in Kalimantan, Muslim vs Christian Ambonese.

    No need all these pointless debate.

    Like

  58. mak jun yeen says:

    To end it all,

    The Arabs thinks we are all Javanese.

    The Greeks, Dutch and Spanish thought we are all Indians.

    A rose by any other name sounds just as sweet.

    Like

  59. AGT says:

    Don’t worry, he still Malaysia PM

    Like

  60. Daniel says:

    Why do Malaysians always talk about race? And how can one race be confined to a specific religion? It’s unnatural and it doesn’t make sense.

    Like

  61. All comments sound like jealousy and have political motive. Don’t try to divide the Hokkien and Cantonese or Khek. The Ceylonese and Malayalam. The Bugis or the Malay. If you do that you divide all the ethnic groups rather than to be together.

    In Sumatra Utara for example there two groups of Malays.
    The Malay and the Malay Pesisir the Code for these are Me and Mp. in Indonesia. The real Malays are from Langkat, Nedan, Binjai, Serdang, Asahan Tinggi, Kualuh, Panai, Bilah dan Ledong. Don’t tell me Raja Ahmad Zainuddin is a real Malay because his ancestors come from Bilah/Kualuh. The Malay Pesisir are found in Tapanuli Tengah dan Sibolga. The others are not Malays. The word Malay Archip. is this area which belong to the Malays but the Dutch and the British divide the two. Before the British and the Dutch came Raja Ahmad ancestors are traders together with Hj. Mutalib who founded Bagan Serai and their decendents are mostly found infront of the old Police Station, beind the mosque, Selama Road etc. in Bagan Serai. The town was sold to the Chinese and the 3 Arabs.

    Another group has opened up Masjid Tanah. He is known as Nakhoda Layar. There are of course had founded Telok Anson and Klang. Hj. Abdul Mutalib invested with Chinese traded together with the the Malay Archip.. They are like one family. Hj. Mutalib knew very well about the seas. The Chinese in Leidong knew very well about business. So they work together in the global markets. Are our Malaysians like this to-day. Get rid of politicing and work together. In Singapore we find that most of the ships’ captains are Indonesians. The Chinese are clever but are afraid of the seas. So they can see the benefit of the Indonesians or Malays from North Sumatra.

    Like

  62. satsuma says:

    PM najis not bugis but he’s from gowa race…
    gowa and bugis have a complicated history behind..
    because of historic war at south sulawesi before world war ( arung palakka history) some of the gowa people move to another place…

    PM Najib also malays..because word “malay” in Malaysia dictionary means “muslim” people live in malaysia peninsular…

    bugis also part of “malay” in “history of south east Asia”

    learning history make us more understand about this topic…ty

    Peace…

    Like

  63. orangair says:

    i say roots remain roots. one cannot change that, can he ? if najib is of gowa roots, be it lah. and tunku is of thai, razak is of gowa, hussein of turk, mahathir is of indian, badawi is of arab/chinese. who knows the next one is of what.

    people have come to the peninsula for thousands of years and and only the whites took its wealth and left. many stay on. even the boat people didn’t want to leave. the banglas too and many would prefer to stay.

    going by roots i would be one confused malay. but i guess i am not alone. but what the hell it doesn’t matter much to me. they say being malay is previleged and being non-bumi is disadvantaged, where do they get this idea ? the politicians feed their heads well.
    on the streets we are all same and equal. malaysians.

    politics backfires.

    Like

  64. Ben Othman says:

    Greetings,

    “Unity amidst Diversity” .”God created men of different races so that they will learn from each other”.

    PM Najib may not be a pure Bugis ethnically, maybe a mix of Makassar and Bugis.But he is a Malay of Nusantara-Malay Archipelago similarly when we say Chinese of Greater China and Indians of India sub continent.

    Word Melayu from Tamil? Malai is not Melayu.It is a sanskrit/Tamil word for Melayu.

    What’s the fuss about this Najib race/ethnicity thing?
    Some may want to imply that in Peninsular Malaysia there are no Malay natives.You are wrong.I am a Malay.My ancestors lived along the coastal areas of the western side of Malaya and their relations are on the Eastern side of Sumatra ( Deli,Medan ).This area separated by only few miles of shallow sea is their kampongs and they travel to other Malay areas such as Jambi and Palembang trading and seeing relatives.They intermarried with the interior natives : the Jakuns as happened in Negri Sembilan.

    What about far away Celebes?
    Yes, Maluku and Sulawesi are also part of their greater Kampung just as the Yunnanese are part of greater China.Buy do not worry folks, Islam taught us Malays to respect others and with infusion of more knowledge on Islam,peace and prosperity
    is our first priority.

    Like

  65. daeng says:

    Modern Malay or Melayu means Malay Race,. much like Jose Rizal The Malay hero of The Philippines. Malay is an umbrella for Major Malayo Polynesians from the Malay Archipelago proper, Singapore Malays, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei and Philppines

    In Singapore Javanese, Bugis, Madurese, Manila man, Bajau, Tausug, Melayu Riau are all term as Malay

    Malay= People of the Malay Archipelago, Nusantara

    Examples, Syrians, Yemeni, Saudis, Lebanese, Tunisians, Iraqis, Libyans, Egyptians are ARABIC people

    There understand?

    Like

  66. Pingback: And why don’t Ahmad hamidi go back to Jogkarta? « Unspun

  67. datin aini says:

    So…. are they also Pendatang too???

    Like

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