Bules like pembantus?

Not very comfortable with the term ‘pembantu looks’.
Maybe we can use the term ‘exotic look’, or ‘native-indonesian look’.

I know that some indonesians do use that term in private. But maybe we should leave it at that.
Just because someone uses the N word in private, for example, does not mean we ought to blog it literally.

Not all pembantu-s look like how Mr. Nguyen described, and on the same token, not all indonesian women who have caucasian partner look like that either.

As much as I appreciate Mr Nguyen’s honesty, I don’t see any good reason to blog such ‘prejudiced’ and ‘subjective’ opinion.

But maybe that’s just me.

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It’s very simple really: Bules are with pembantu-looking girls because they can’t get the classier, fair-skinned, well-educated Indonesian girls. Let’s face it – many of these bules are considered losers back in their hometown and when they come to a country like Indonesia, all of a sudden they’re in demand by more women than they’d ever dared to look at. These women flaunt themselves at them, they make them feel wanted and desired. Do you think these guys would start questioning the women’s intentions? No, they lap up the attention like a starved cat lapping up cream.

Yet I bet at the back of their minds they already know the disturbing truth, i.e. they’re settling for second best. The mind is clever though – it will sooner convince itself of a convenient lie than admit to a painful truth. Hence the birth of a cultural/socio-anthropological lie that white men find dark-skinned, pembantu-looking women attractive.

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Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Fernando’s wild conclusions are true, particularly this one:

“Let’s face it – many of these bules are considered losers back in their hometown and when they come to a country like Indonesia, all of a sudden they’re in demand…”

Now if we follow that to its logical conclusion, he’s saying that despite the fact these guys are total “losers” in western countries they are still much better than the alternative for local girls… meaning Indonesian men. OUCH!

If that’s how he truly feels, he’s got some serious inferiority issues about his own manhood and his own country/culture — all rather sad, really.

Maybe Fern and Thang need to come to one of our mixed-couple gatherings and see for themselves that indeed hundreds of very successful Indonesians (fair skin, straight teeth, educated, executive ones!) and Westerners (diplomats, entrepreneurs, executives!) are happily married.

As my wise old granddad use to say: water finds it own level with relationships as well — and that means only people in similar social classes can be compatible. So yes, if some guy’s an uneducated oil boy roughneck, he’ll gravitate toward the uneducated, bucked tooth gals — but the successful educated guy will attract and be attracted to successful educated women – and that goes for Indonesia or anywhere else on God’s planet because water indeed finds its own level.

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Doesn’t matter what sex Fernando is, close-minded stereotyping, based on skin color, definitely demonstrates some serious inferiority problems. And it doesn’t matter what sex, race or nationality anyone is; water will find its own level. Successful, classy people will always dig each other as will the lower class people of the world.

I’m really shocked at the ignorance and racism that is rearing its hideous head here. All of you should be ashamed. How can you take something so pure and natural like love and relationships and crassly reduce it to skin color and dental records and nationalities? That is beyond nauseating.

I’m done with this B.S., you’ve just lost one regular reader.

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Unspun & Thang D. Nguyen,

Just to make it perfectly clear: I didn’t call anybody a racist, so don’t put me together with those who do.

Again, I was just not comfortable with the terms: the ‘maid-look’ or the ‘pembantu-look’.
If that is not prejudice then what is it?

And why go even lower by using the word ‘slutty’ ?
You are not going to call good hardworking honest people who happen to work in domestic help profession as slutty, are you?

I NEVER see this as a race issue. More your choices of words.
Don’t get me wrong. I admire your work, both of you. I always do.
And for sure you both have a lot better vocabulary up your sleeves than a pembantu-faced, dark-skinned, buck-teethed slutty indonesian such as I am.

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It is possibly unfortunate that Ong decided to link to Thang’s blog, but if it affords us the opportunity to ‘unspin’ racism, then he has done us a service.

Except, Ong, I am beginning to suspect that you have fallen into the trap of condemning ALL white male expats. Of course we stick out in a crowd, not least because we’re taller. We don’t ask to be noticed, let alone be pigeon-holed as upper or lower class. Being tarred with the same brush as the class you describe as being usually … aging divorced miners, social misfits back home, acned geeks and other losers is not on, even if that did describe me/us.

They may be losers in your terms, but who are you to judge? How do you pick and choose?

More to the point, what do you do to ameliorate the condition of the losers closer to home? Or do you only respect those “sensitive bules” ~ a racist term ~ who run and manage pesantran, drug addiction rehab centres, HIV/AIDS programmes, education projects for street children etc. etc.? Or are you happy that Indonesia is still dependent to a degree on handouts and altruistic bules?

Thang (the ill-informed columnist) replies to a comment: “I was defending western men’s right to liking dark-skinned Indonesian women with hard-on-the-eyes features.”

No you weren’t, Thang. In your blog and subsequent comments you keep referring to skin-colour and this reinforces the notion that you have racist tendencies. Otherwise you would restrict yourself to saying that you don’t find Indonesian women particularly attractive and would then set out your own sexual preferences. And no-one would give a damn.

Instead, you created a forum for other woodchucks in the woodpile to come creeping out and boost your visitor hits.

It could be argued that we all have prejudices against races. Mine is residual in that I don’t particularly like Germans ~ my grandfather and father used to tell me that they fought in two major wars “for the likes of me“. That is, they fought for a world rid of exclusivity based on race. A forlorn hope, but, hey, they were prepared to die for the right to live in harmony with the great variety of peoples the world over.

That you should consider repeating the racist tendencies of your friend is pomposity of the first degree. (The all-encompassing) we can live with that without bothering with you. However, that you should, by inference, malign me and my Indonesian family without ever having met me, or the hundreds of other non-Indonesians who have, post colonial era, contributed so much to this country, is totally unacceptable and demands a response.

To repeat the Anonymous comment in your blog: Thang, you are very wrong and disrespectful.

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I have read this thread of comments with great interest. Let me say up front that I am of white caucasian extraction (or ‘bule’ in the local vernacular), have lived and worked in Indonesia for many years, and have an Indonesian partner.

I also happen to be a trained linguist with a special interest in semantics and semiotics.

First off, let me congratulate Mr Thang D. Nguyen on his excellent command of English and his formidable literary skills. However, these very qualities may be at the root of the misunderstandings which are plaguing this discussion. Because no matter how good a user of a language one may be, if you are not a native speaker you cannot get inside the feelings that haunt words, the attitudes and emotions they convey to native speakers. Fluent, even bilingual, users of a tongue that is not their native language may use words with great technical precision (denotation), but be unaware of the shades of feeling they convey (connotation).

The fact is that many of the words in this thread have caused offence not because of the intention of the writer, but his (or her) excusable ignorance of their connotations. And we each react in very different ways. My friend Jakartass is upset by, and eschews the use of, the expression ‘bule’ – which for me is a perfectly acceptable word.

Much of the discussion here is depressingly based on cheap and easy stereotypes; it causes offence and bad feeling because of the underlying attitudes it reveals. In my own writings I have one golden rule: observe and comment with admitted subjectivity. Anyone who claims to write ‘objectively’ is merely deluding himself! My guiding principle is summed up in the French saying “tout savoir, c’est tout pardonner” – to know everything is to forgive everything.

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Reveller –

Thank you for your kind words on my command of the English language. I disagree, however, with your argument that

“Because no matter how good a user of a language one may be, if you are not a native speaker you cannot get inside the feelings that haunt words, the attitudes and emotions they convey to native speakers. Fluent, even bilingual, users of a tongue that is not their native language may use words with great technical precision (denotation), but be unaware of the shades of feeling they convey (connotation).”

Not for me, mate! I know the power of every word I choose and the emotional impact it has on a reader–especially someone who happens to be my opponent in a debate like this. My pen is, indeed, a double-edged knife: I use it to spread butter on a piece of bread and serve it nicely to you, or I can stab it right into your heart (or rectum, for that matter) and twist it.

Unlike most average persons, writers like myself don’t have much space in print publications to say what we have to say clearly; we can’t afford to be wordy (who wants to be, really?). Therefore, we choose our words selectively and use them effectively. So, every word I use in my writing is there for a reason.

Cheers,

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Thang, a very good counter-argument. Yes, you know the power and the emotional impact of your words – that’s clear from the cut and thrust of your posts! – but from your own linguistic bacground and perspective, not necessarily from that of your interlocutors. My point, to develop it further, is that a native speaker may have sensitivities that differ qualitatively from a non-native speaker, and are a product of their culture, class, education and life experiences.

An interesting question that I’ve been pondering for quite some time is this; if someone (through adoption, parent’s emigration, change in family circumstances or whatever) becomes a national of another country in late childhood or young adulthood, what is their status as a native speaker? What do other readers of this thread think?

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Sudogiman, I was indeed out on the Blok last night – but alas, being but a humble teacher I can’t afford the amount of booze required to induce a respectable hangover! 🙂

Actually, the sentence is correct. but from your own linguistic bacground and perspective, not necessarily from that of your interlocutors is not a sentence as it doesn’t contain a finite verb.

However, mea culpa for the typo in spelling background incorrectly!

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Hi Sudogiman,

I learnt the basics of English grammar and syntax at school. Yes, I’m old enough to have been educated at the time when English language lessons really were English language lessons, and dealt with the nuts and bolts of our language. I recall long hours spent parsing and punctuating sentences, analyzing clauses into their respective types, and studying simple, complex and compound sentence structures. Happy days!

Oh, and the reason the police raided the Melawai Five Plus One is that they hadn’t been paying enough sin tax. 🙂

Cheers,

Reveller.

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Most of my expat friends (i’m retired now at age 40 but also bule) have middle class or even high class indonesian girlfriends. A big proportion of these girls are fair skinned and tall and gorgeous (some are chinese indonesian) and obviously high class. To be seen from the way they behave and the way they dress. An indonesian person can see from a mile if a girl is an ayam or a normal girl. Granted many of my friends who have a high class girlfriend often like to dine outside also in the Blok M or CJ’s or aformentioned Ayam locations. I don’t know how they manage to keep this secret from their girlfriends or whether their girlfriends approve (i would be surprised if they did) but fact is the relationships seem to be stable.

I can honestly say that an average of 60% of all expats or pensioners living in Indonesia sport one or more (some have more than one) high class girlfriends a good proportion of which doesn’t have the so called pembantu looks.

Reason that some bule like pembantu??? Well it is normal that many western guys are more attracted to or find the darker skinned girls more attractive. Also most of the girls working in the naughty nighlife areas are the eastern Javanese girls who are shorter and often darker (sometimes because they used to work on the rice fields before making their way to the honey pots of Jakarta) Many of these girls are immensely sexy and aggresively chasing the bule guys, more agressive then some of the high class girls do (however this is changing very fast now). So their looks combined with the fact that they congregate in bule visited nightlife areas and their bule hunting approach makes them an easier target for some fun, but most bule don’t consider them girlfriend material. For a real girlfriend they ask their high class indo friends to introduce them or they find one through the internet, or they find a co-worker

My 2 cents worth, trust my my observation is pretty correct, i should know after 11 years

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It’s is quite hilarious, from a female perspective, reading the stupid arguments men are having about what is attractive, what is not and the level of hysteria surrounding the western male/indonesian female liason. Basically it just reaffirms my opinion that most men spend their time arguing about stupid idiotic things, that is why the world is in such a bad shape. I say get over yourselves!

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Maaf Sudogiman, but nowhere in my post did I disapprove of these liasons. I merely pointed to the stupidity of the argument between the men. In fact my policy is live and let live. I have no problems with such liasons. I fact know a number of Indonesian women who are married to Indonesian men and vice versa.I myself have spent much time in indonesia and in fact in the 1990’s went out with an Indonesian actor and activist for about three years. However I would like to say my relationship was borne out of a mutual interest in the arts and my endeavours to discover more about Indonesian society. That person, though no longer my boyfriend, remains a friend today.
As to the motives of other Western Women who disapprove of Indonesian female/western male liasons, well I cannot speak for them. But I would like to venture that it is a little bit simplistic lumping them all in the competition basket. i am sure there are a variety of reasons, not just one, to account for that attitude.
Lastly on the topic ‘Bule’ mentioned throughout this thread- I too have use the term jokingly but tend more towards using the term orang barat. Bule means means albino, it is a term defining someone by their skin colour. It is a derogatory term and therefore discriminatory. But its not the only example of widely accepted discriminatory language in Indonesia : In Medan there is an area called Kampung Kling.. which means Kampung Black. It was so named because of the large Indian community that lived there (and to an extent still does).

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Suzanne is right.

It’s not a question of whether or not we should ban it, or a self-appointed clique of language police should determine whether or not we use the term “bule”.

Some Indonesians and Westerners such as the trained linguist with an interest in Semiotics Mr. Reveller, that they do not find “Bule” to be derogatory. In fact, some say, there is still a post-colonial hangover associating Caucasian people, or “bule”, with superior qualities.

The problem, as Ms. Suzanne points out, is Bule’s racial meaning. “Bule” means Albino, a person with a deficiency of melanin, the pigment that gives skin its colour. (Jemaah Islamiah activists might say that pigs give Bules their true colour- pink).

So to talk about the qualities of “Orang Bule”, or “Bules in Jakarta,” strictly speaking, you’re talking about “white people”. Some opponents of PC-dom might say that’s not what people mean by Bule, but words have meanings. That’s why we have dictionaries. “Bule” means a Caucasian with white skin.

“Bule” also exists in relation to other skin colours, various shades of brown, yellow, or hitam as Indonesians described the dark-skinned.

While “Bule” might usually be a neutral term, what about “Inlander”, “Pri”, or “Cina”. Taken beyond this country’s borders, how about “Bule” terms for other races or ethnic groups, like Nigger, Gook, Dago, Wop, Slope, Coon or Abbo. Not quite so pleasant.

The point is, “Bule” exists on an invisible continuum of racial terms and categories, mostly festering about in the subconscious. There was a time in Indonesia when it wasn’t so good to be an Asiatic or Pribumi. Batavia, Bandung and other Indonesian cities were once divided into quarters for each of the races. A different European colony, South Africa, did likewise, setting up that nice system called Apartheid that’s so fashionable now.

Another point is that racial terms are about a century behind biology, science, and anthropology. Biologically, a Swede might have more in common with an Indonesian than another Indonesian, given DNA chains and the other chemical factors that make us human. (If you don’t believe me look up race on Wikipedia).

I, for example, am a “Bule”, but can’t donate blood to other bules (unless I want to kill them), because my blood type is more common in Asia because of my Kazakh great-great-great grandparents.

So when Lee Kuan Yew gets on his bully pulpit to preach about eugenics and the laziness of the Malay race, or industrious ness Chinese race, he’s talking about very nasty political – not biological – definitions.

If you’re interested in joining the ranks of people who use these definitions, go ahead. They include the Adolf Hitler, his racial higene scientists and the “phrenologists”, the notorious skull-measurers of the 19th century who provide American Indians were inferior because of the shape of their skulls.

Finally, there are those who’d complain that “Bule” is just a word. As mentioned about the words like Nigger, Gook, or Coon ? Words obviously matter to some people. Fratricide in this country was “pembersihan komunis”, civilian deaths in war are “collateral damage,”; the list goes on.

It’s not a question of banning words. Just maybe using better ones like “Londo” (Javanese term for whities), or “Orang Barat” westerner.

Still feel good about being “Orang Bule” ? Maybe we need some resident phrenologists.

Bejizzlement Humpid-Humpidiam

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Hm. As I’m probably the youngest “bule” male here by a good few years, did the teaching thing for way too long, and am now doing the professional thing, I’m going to weigh in. No way in hell am I reading every word of every post above so if I repeat something that’s already been said, just sue me. It’ll be less painful.

Many westerners in Jakarta are “immoral.” Many aren’t. Some pick up girls from the most horrid dives imaginable, some don’t. The ones who do hang out in places where the drinks are cheap enough for poor girls to enjoy while they’re waiting for the guy who is going to marry them and whisk them away to germany, england, the states or wherever, or at least let them live in his apartment instead of a tiny kosan in an urban village in a giant, filthy concrete jungle. The ones who don’t pick up girls of that sort tend to eschew the earthly delights of Blok M and Stadium, and hang out in more expensive places where the entertainment is more highbrow and they won’t be hassled by barfly girls. Either that or they stay at home. There are various degrees in between the two extremens, but you tell me who’s more visible of the two groups, and who is therefore more likely to be representative of what appears to be a fairly homogenous group.

Thang – not too many teachers live in fancy apartments. Trust me – I was one. Most teachers outside international schools are making less than the quivalent of a McDonalds assistant manager in their home country. The ones a little up the food chain live in apartments in the expat ghettos like Rasuna and Mediterranean, not quite ‘flashy’ by western standards.

The biggest of the “lower classes” of expat are the ones looking for a different future for themselves. Some of these are mentally derelict, some are not. Some teachers at bare-bones “language institutions” like EF are former computer systems topologists (I don’t even know what that is), former world news editors of top-three news agencies, music majors, and former U.S. coast guard colonels. Some are former spray-painters, mechanics and factory workers. Some are in Jakarta because their job was boring or the market for jobs in their field back home were too tight, some are here because they like picking up cheap hookers with or without muka pembantu. Some are here so they can launch a musical career. Some are considered unattractive by the girls back home and enjoy life here because of the availability of women they find attractive — this is almost always a bonus factor for the teachers I know, but usually not a decisive one.

In the middle of the salary scale are consultants, engineers and miscellaneous. Often middle-aged, some young, some ancient. Some enjoy hitting blok m, some don’t. At the top end of the salary scale.. well I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this.

Jakarta is a city of extreme contrasts, and those that choose to live here reflect that to some extent. It’s difficult to have a middle-of-the-road lifestyle because it doesn’t really exist. The stay-at-home good-husband group are less visible to the rest of society, the hit-Mybar-and-take-home-a-cheap-hooker types are more visible.

The attractions Jakarta offers are few and far between. There are few cities less polluted in the world than this one, and surely none with less natural charm. That’s right, I’m going to paint in absurdly broad strokes – just because I can – and say that as an expat either you’re here to get away from something, here because your company posted you here, here to get into something, or here for the women. The ones who are here for the women are here for “Indonesian” women. If they weren’t they’d be in Thailand or South America. That usually means dark skin, smooth features, big round eyes and an “innocent” look. That corresponds to the bare bones of the “pembantu” look pretty well. But the pembantu look usually combines those features with the slightly-worn appearance of — wait for it — exactly the type of poverty-stricken lifestyle that’s likely to drive a girl to wind up in Mybar looking for a boyfriend, husband, or cash. Those who are here for the women are more likely to want to be free to sample many of the women, and therefore less likely to get involved with someone who requires more commitment. Some guys get a dirty kick out of mistreating poverty-stricken ayam, some don’t. The ayam remain as ayam because the wage is better than sewing Nikes together in Bekasi for 70 hours a week.

The term “muka pembantu” is common among Indonesians to describe someone who looks like a “typical maid”. Also quite common with Indonesians is the general statement “Chinese people are arrogant and they smell,” and “Westerners are immoral and rich and they like Indonesian girls with muka pembantu.” See a pattern there? Indonesia is traditionally populated by distinct ethnic groups about who generalizations can be made because of a greater degree of homogenity in their various cultures — for example Bataks enjoy arguing (look for christian “christian” names and family names like Simatupang on law offices), Betawis enjoy sitting next to the road in groups shouting at other groups of Betawis in the other prime sitting spots within earshot, Solonese tiptoe around fearing to offend anyone, and Indonesian Chinese tend to be business-savvy and stick to their tight little groups. If you’ve always been able to classify every group of people, how long is it going to take to change that attitude when another group who are mostly tall, have lighter skin hair and eyes and all seem to speak english come to town? It’s not racism if it’s true, it’s not racist to point it out and it’s not intentionally racist when they laugh at bule guys for picking the maid-faced girls.

And that’s my go-cheng on the matter.

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I don’t care what Thang has to say as he clearly is a racist and not even an Indonesian (he’s Vietnamese, but maybe he’s forgotten that and thinks he can speak on behalf of Indonesian people), but beside that, there’s nothing wrong with being a maid.

A maid is not a person, it’s a _job_ and a hard job at that. Imagine having to clean an entire house at least twice a day, raise the kids there and put up with crap from an abusive majikan.. AND only get paid Rp 400.000 per month if they are lucky.

I have respect for maids in Indonesia and while I don’t have one now (and when I did I paid her more than others paid theirs and didn’t give her much work to do) I do feel upset when I see people throw around terms like “muka pembantu”, as if maids are ugly and cheap, when they aren’t. They’re just trying to make a living like you and I.

This kind of attitude needs to change.

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i can play scrabble all day long cause i love to play with words and rearrange them for higher points ,;.

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