Rasa not so sayang?


rasa-sayang.jpg

(Update: Unspun, uncharacteristically, did not go through the papers this morning. It appears that the problem is even more serious as the matter has been brought before parliament. This is an excerpt of a report from The Jakarta Post:

The House on Monday urged an immediate response from the government to Malaysia’s use of the traditional Indonesian song Rasa Sayange in its “Truly Asia” tourism campaign.

House of Representatives member Hakam Naja of the National Mandate Party (PAN) said if the government could prove the song belonged to Indonesia, Indonesia should sue the Malaysian government.

“The government needs to check on its origins, whether it’s from Indonesia or not,” the deputy chairman of House Commission X overseeing education and tourism was quoted as saying by detik.com newsportal.

Rasa Sayange is believed to have originated in Maluku, where it has been sung for generations by people to express their love for the environment. (rst of story here)

———

Is a cultural flap between serumpun countries Malaysia and Indonesia in the works?

Unspun‘s business partner today told me of a radio broadcast talking about the Rasa Sayang Malaysia site, which is Malaysia’s answer to e-marketing itself to the world.

According to the radio program, the site’s comments section has been closed down because many Indonesians have been writing in to complain of Malaysia’s appropriation of the Rasa Sayang tune to boost its own image.

Ever the skeptic Unspun went to the site and clicked on the “comments” hyperlinked. Nothing happened! This suggests that the radio announcer may be right.

This all set Unspun‘s head spinning about Malaysian culture and how sometimes Malaysia goes so hard to create a culture of its own that the results become ersatz. Consider, for instance, what sometimes happens when Malaysians get an invitation to attend a formal Malaysian occasion: The dress code is usually specified as “Malaysian Batik.” Not just any batik but “Malaysian Batik.

This may work well in other countries but not in Indonesia, home of the batik. The batik here, from Solo, and Pekalongan are exquisite, beautiful and full of history (for more information on Indonesian batik try my friend’s blogsite here. Compare it to the Malaysian batik, and you’d see the difference. Wavy lines that a five year old could have drawn over satiny fabric that’s good for showing off the spare tyres of middle aged men. Amoeba would have more culture.

And it is always an embarrassment when Malaysia culture shows are staged here. What can we show them that they do not have? Wayang Kulit? Satay? (OK, ganted Unspun likes Malaysian satay a lot over Indonesian ones but its hardly a Malaysian invention is it?) A Malaysian minister scolding bloggers goblok? Unspun’s written about it here and here.

But the point here is not to trash Malaysia; rather it is to suggest that it should perhaps find more creative ways of expressing its multi-racial culture that befits a nation 50 years in the making with lots of creative and smart people.

Back to the possible flap on Rasa Sayang. Is the tune Indonesian? Unspun is no authority on musicology and would like to hear from any authoritative persons out there.

This has the hallmarks of an issue that may escalate. If the radio announcer was right then the Malaysian authorities have a task on their hands to manage this issue before it snowballs into a public flap with nationalistic sentiments inflamed on both sides of the straits. Perhaps the Malaysian Tourist Board’s new PR consultant has good advice on how to handle the issue?

(Readers please note: This may shape up to be a emotive issue so let’s all work toward making this a discussion rather than a catfight. It’s OK to express opinions but try to refrain from name calling and emotive language. If you feel someone should o should not do something, say it and say why. Other than that, debate all you want!)

436 thoughts on “Rasa not so sayang?

  1. fyi…”rasa sayange”–a maluku folk song–was “introduced” by a number of senior indonesian navy officers to a larger audience in the western part of indonesia in late 50s. those seamen, in the old days, were practically the only ones with unlimited access to the eastern part of the country. they were the ones who vigorously nurtured the idea of indonesia as one united republic, by among other things, introducing a number of folk songs and dances from the east in the hope that all indonesians–from sabang to merauke, as they said–would be, culturally, familiar with each other.
    like any other folk songs, of course it was difficult to identify the composer of “rasa sayange”. this, of course, does not necessarily mean that it belongs to “anybody” even if this “anybody” falls into the category of “saudara serumpun”…

    Like

  2. Malaysia lageee…. cape deh dengerin berita dari negara ini ….

    Bagaimana bisa kita hormati kalau kelakuan kayak “maling” ….

    Untuk orang Indonesia, tolong jangan berkunjung ke negara ini…. masih banyak negara lain yang lebih menarik dari Malaysia …. Gw sendiri udah pernah ke KL, sumpah deh gw gak bakalan lagi berkunjung ke negara “Katro” kayak gini ….

    Kalau anda tetap berkunjung kesini berarti anda ikut melestarikan kebudayaan maling sesuai dengan motto MTB ” Visit Malingsia 2007, Truly Maling in Asia …” Hahahaha…..

    Like

  3. Hot news, indeed!

    I’m an Indonesian, and honestly yesterday when I first heard and saw the ad, I feel sad and angry at the same time because Malaysia claim this song as theirs. See the language used in the song, that’s not a malaysian language (the use of ending ‘-e’ in rasa sayange is common in eastern indonesia, so the word ‘nona’, and also the rest lyrics of the complete song). To use it is one thing, but to claim it is a very different matter!

    Both country–Indonesia and Malaysia–used to sing this song a long long time ago together in a TV show (if I’m not wrong called Titian Muhibah). And I remember that at the end of the show Indonesian sing this song and the Malaysian followed with text in their hand (because they were not familiar with this song). So, why not admit that this song is not an original malaysian song… say it from Ambon/Manado, if don’t like to say it from Indonesia.

    But, above all.. mari saling berbagi rasa sayang.. Indonesia, Malaysia, who ever you are.. rasa sayange.. rasa sayange..

    Cheers,
    Made

    Like

  4. Terima Kasih, bro!
    All this while, I thought Rasa Sayang eh was a Singapore song. Like Di Tanjung Katong airnye biru …

    Like

  5. Indonesia harus bertindak! nggak cukup dong dengan berkeluh kesah doang … Malaysia memang selangkah lebih maju dalam mengeksplorasi dan mempromosikan aset bangsa mereka – sorry, maksudnya aset bangsa kita – seharusnya Indonesia protes resmi. Rasa Sayang dari Hongkong ?! pleaseee ……

    Like

  6. Bung Rosli,

    Walaupun “sinis”, toh pendapat bung Idiot_malay ada benarnya juga….

    Coba deh anda tinggal 1 bulan saja di KL dan pusing-pusing di semenanjung… Loe bakalan tahu deh siapa sebenarnya mereka, khususnya melayu malaysia … Mereka ngerasa dirinya paling hebat dan kayaknya sih udah kehilangan identutas melayunya …. Lebih lucu lagi mereka cas cis cus pake bhs Inggris jika kita ajak omong bhs melayu ….

    Satu lagi, mereka (terutama RELA), prejudice amat ama orang Indonesia (mereka sebut kita Indon) seolah-olah kita-kita semua ini adalah pelaku kriminal semua yang bisa mereka perlakukan seenaknya…

    Gw hanya bisa urut dada aja .. Padahal dipihak lain mereka sangat memuja-muja lagu-lagu dan sinetron dari Indonesia seperti Dewa, So7, KD, Samson, KerisPatih etc ……

    Sejujurnya.. seni budaya kita lebih kaya dan beragam dari mereka, So apa yang loe bisa lihat jika berkunjung ke sana ? Nothing and No added Value for you … Jika ingin lihat gedung-gedung modern di Jakarta juga banyak ….. hahahaha…

    Satu lagi yang membuat gw sangat miris adalah keberhasilan pemerintah mereka meng-“indoktrinasi” rakyatnya, terutama yang Melayu dengan cara “pengendalian yang sangat sempurna” atas isi “media massa” disana .. (kayak di negara “otoriter” dan “komunis” aja ….)

    Gw sendiri sampe sekarang masih gak ngerti kok mereka bisa jadi arogan tapi sekaligus juga terpesona dengan hasil seni budaya kita …

    Lho kok jadi Curhat …. Udahan dulu ya …… Hahahaha…

    Like

  7. malaysia… cobalah cari esensi budayamu apa… exploit the essence of your own culture gitu… jangan sampai nanti ada yang ngeledek.. “malaysian culture? what culture?”

    get my point, bro?

    Like

  8. saya lihat banyak komentar yang dilontarkan di atas adalah berdasarkan emosi yang tidak stabil yang saya kira bukan didasarkan kpd pemikiran yang matang dan rasional

    lagu ni sebenarnya adalah lagu warisan etnik melayu di nusantara. oleh itu, ianya tersebar menerusi warisan ke seluruh nusantara yakni malaysia, indonesia, singapura dan brunei. jadi adalah tidak wajar suatu entiti etnik dimiliknegarakan atau dinasionalkan

    saya ingin tegaskan disini, malaysia tidak pernah mengatakan bhw lagu ini adalah milik negara ini, namun lebih bertegas kepada lagu warisan serumpun yakni nusantara dan kiranya ianya adalah lagu indonesia, apa yang perlu dilakukan adalah membuktikan siapa penciptanya dan adakah ianya telah dipatenkan.

    Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
    “Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia

    Idiot_Malay: “Untuk orang Indonesia, tolong jangan berkunjung ke negara ini”…saya fikir kenyataan begini tak perlu kerana hanya membuktikan kebodohan anda. persoalannya jika tidak mahu orang indonesia datang ke malaysia, kenapa ada kebanjiran serius masyarakat indonesia di malaysia? saya cabar sila jawab…

    Mr.bambang: “Huhhh…Malaysia. The Trouble maker for Indonesia!” sesiapa saja boleh buat kenyataan sebegini tetapi persoalannya adakah mereka berfikir? kalau malaysia sememangnya menyusahkan indonesia, di mana kami letakkan tanggugjawab ingin membantu saudara serumpun ketika bencana?? saya cabar sila jawab…

    jikalau sejarah kedua negara dinilai, malaysia lebih mengambil sikap toleransi. jika diikutkan mahu saja menyuruh kerajaan indonesia membayar pampasan kepada semua rakyat malaysia yang terkorban semasa Konfrantasi indonesia. kononnya mahu menubuhkan indonesia raya, tapi atas dasar paksaan terhadap orang lain untuk menerima pemerintahan sendiri. fikir-fikirkanlah…

    Like

  9. First batik, then wayang, angklung..And now malaysia’s stealing Indonesian traditional song also?? Shame.. You guys are desperate for an identity aren’t you. For Indonesian government.. Shame, when are you gonna stand up and protect our copy rights?

    Like

  10. We really shouldn’t blame malaysia for stealing our traditional song, considering their people can’t even write or compose any decent song whatsoever. So pathetic.

    Like

  11. Batik and wayang kulit are the masterpiece traditions from the eastern states of malaysia that already existed by generations. it differs greatly in culture with the so-called indonesian versions. i think the only thing u guys can do is mumbles but nothing really can come out of it. regarding angklung, it is a traditional musical instrument passed on through generations by chinese descendants in malaysia.

    so, hey everybody can claim but can u prove any?? the answer is no so mumbling is only a WASTE of time. if our people can’t compose any good songs whatsoever, then why got malaysian songs circulating in ur music industries?? haha u guys are so pathetic while talking without fangs…

    regarding indonesian recent upsurge in musical industries, don’t u guys know that in the early 70s that u guys don’t even have any good songs, so most of ur songs were direct interpretations of malaysian songs ie search and from west “the beatles”!! now this seemed to be so usually heard, the copy cats argue that others are so huh???

    Shame on guys too, u can’t achieve any on economic ground so u desperately giving away ur economic sector to world bank coz uguys can’t even take care of ur own pockets, is it?? militarily uguys are underforced so u looked upon US for help, hey i oso pity u that u can’t even take care of ur own bussinesslah! sending away F16 and whatsoever for sipadan island, at the end uguys lost sipadan at international court. u are so famous with ur tin kosong thing, but really nothing really came out of it, just mess…

    Like

  12. wah, orang malaysia emang nyebelin!!! semua dicolongin. bukti kalo bangsa mereka sama sekali nggak kreatif dan berbudaya. cuma untuk bikin jingle iklan aja, mereka cari-cari pengarang dari indonesia. bahkan sinetron di tv mereka juga bikinan script writer indonesia. its true! terusnya mereka ngaku-ngaku kalo itu buatan mereka. bah! bahkan suku bangsa mereka aja asalnya dari sumatera. mereka nggak punya penduduk asli kayak kita.
    jadi, buat temen-temen sesama indonesia… ayo dong tunjukin nasionalisme kita dengan lebih INDONESIA.

    Like

  13. kamarul said: “if our people can’t compose any good songs whatsoever, then why got malaysian songs circulating in ur music industries??” haha u guys are so pathetic while talking without fangs…

    pak kamarul, fyi, lagu2 Siti Nurhaliza yang ngetop di Indonesia diciptakan oleh PONGKY of Jikustik, musisi INDONESIA.

    Sesudah lagu ‘Isabella’ dan kemudian CT, I could not reckon any of Malaysian musician got famous in Indonesia. We’re not really fond of Malay songs I believe…and we had enough great bands/singers for our industry.

    have you read the response by your nation to this Rasa Sayang issue ? they said, ” Let those INDON have back their song along with 4 million illegal workers here” well, Its a bit offensive I guess.

    Thanks !

    Like

  14. I think the main problems are … lack in creative and ethics … This is a big ashame if formal institution like Malaysia Tourism Board (MTB) did it …..

    If they smart, MTB can make a contest or something, spend the money (they have much money to do this), showcase the Malay rock or maybe introduce Iban songs any day.

    Like

  15. bodoh punya bangsa indon , pasal ni pun nak kecoh , datang malaysia bikin jenayah lagi nak banyak cakap .. dasar indon goblok

    indon bising kalau pembantu rumah mereka kena dera tapi kalau pembantu indon bawa lari anak tuannya , dera anak tuannya ada orang malaysia tunjuk perasaan bakar bendera indon

    indon goblok ..majukan le negara kamu jangan nak kecoh , lu lagi bising pasal artis kamu tapi bukan kah artis kamu cari makan kat sini

    INDON GOBLOK GONJOL

    Like

  16. tulisan idiot-indon gonjol macam sapi ..

    Kalau anda tetap berkunjung kesini berarti anda ikut melestarikan kebudayaan maling sesuai dengan motto MTB ” Visit Malingsia 2007, Truly Maling in Asia …” Hahahaha…..

    …………..
    hahahaha yang jadi maling indon ni le .. datang malaysia jadi pencopet kasi pecah rumah

    indon .. “truly maling “

    Like

  17. Datuk Kamarul yang terhormat (terpaksa dihormat)

    i don’t care about who wrote “Rasa Sayange”. Alasan anda adalah lagu itu berasal dari malay dan menyebar ke indonesia. Nah jika anda tahu lagu itu juga menyebar ke indonesia dan (apalagi) sudah membumi di indonesia harusnya pemerintahmu itu mengerti dong kalo indonesia merasa memiliki lagu itu. lagian liriknya aja Maluku banget gitu lohh..

    Masalah angklung, anda ini lucu banget lho. lha anda tahu angklung itu dari cina kok diklaim juga punya negara mu. Dasar pemerintahmu itu yang aneh.

    masalah batik. anda bilang yang anda klaim itu batik malaysia. beda dengan batik INDONESIA. Lha kalo gitu klaimnya batik malay donk. kalo batik doang.. di indonesia juga ada batik solo, pekalongan, jogja. Yang spesifik gitu lohh. kalo anda klaimnya batik, itu berarti batik indonesia juga termasuk

    lalu anda jangan ungkit2 masalah ligitan dan sipadan. asal anda tahu aja. waktu konflik itu timbul, kami orang indonesia ingin sekali menghabisi nyawa kalian bangsa malay. Kalo presiden kami nggak sabaran, sudah dia kirim dukun santet dayak ke semenanjung penang. bersyukurlah kalian ornag malay, Sukarno sudah mati. jika dia masih ada, kita jamin, malay akan kita ganyang.

    sodara serumpun f@#&k!!!

    Like

  18. yudas

    apa kamu mau serang malaysia … pakai apa buluh runcing hahaha

    mau lepas selat melaka naik apa … rakit pisang ..kena ombak kamu semua lemas .. dasar bangsa goblok selalu cari isu remeh , senjata kamu semua sudah usang lagi mau serang kami .. baik bagi rakyat supaya tak kebuluran …

    apa kalau kamu mau serang kamu ingat kami diam diri , cobalah le …

    sapa mau serumpun dengan bangsa sakai …

    Like

  19. indon mmg banyak emosi
    pasal So7,samson,radja n etc pun nak kecoh
    itu hiburan..so tak kisahla dari mana pun

    to kamarul
    mmg lagu rasa sayang tu lagu nusantara
    indon pandai2 je nak claim diorg punya
    negara ja besar..tapi ngak punya apa2
    angklung pun bising..kami org malaysia pun main la..kami pun ada batik..

    aku tau kenapa indon jeles dgn malaysia
    kerana mereka tidak mampu mempromosi semua ini..malaysia buat promosi bising..indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..
    lepasni pun ada lagi kot..

    kami ngak rugi apa2 kalau seluruh warga kami keluar indon.tapi TKI indon akan merana dinegara sendiri kerana negara yg mundur..
    kami boleh ambil TKI dari bangladesh,myanmar,thailand,pakistan,india..
    alhamdulillah..negara kami syurga pekerjaan

    Like

  20. pasal SO7, radja , samson pun bising

    aku dan kawan-kawan aku minat metallica , green day , gnr .. amerika tak bising pun

    eleh indon .. itu aje dia da selain tu kepapaan , kebuluran aje

    Like

  21. ini indon tiap tiap tahun eksport asap ke malaysia lagi nak kecoh

    kalau asap tu boleh modified jadi barang lain mau dia marah pulak …. dasar goblok

    Like

  22. shit, dunno what those myASSians are talking about.

    you’re using AMBONESE FOLKLORE SONG as your “truly asia” campaign. You guys from myASSia studied geography in your elementary school ey? AMBONESE or ppl from MALUKU is Indonesia’s territory. so AMBONESE FOLKLORE SONGS are belong to INDONESIA. NOT myASSia.

    quote from my blog

    “bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” – “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”

    well yes now think bout that.

    respect is the most expensive thing a? and malaysians (myASSians) doesnt seem to have that. poooor thing for such a ‘big’ country. did i say big? yeah right bigggg. :p

    oh yeah, english please.

    Like

  23. now i say…nobody really can answer my questions…all uguys do is becoming more and more emotional and irrational

    i didn’t say this song was from malaysia, i said its malays culture…malay is an ethnic not a nation…u can have malays in malaysia, indonesia, singapore, brunei or even in south africa. its a diverse and international concept!!! what im talking about is uguys are making an ethnic entity as a nation’s entity which is totally wrong and absurd. it can never be like that, u are the ones stealing it…u denied other people who have their rights as malays for accessing it..

    now this is not the first time happened…history shows jews from all over the world trying to deny the palestinians right for jerusalem!!! yes jerusalem is the origin of all jews but can u force an ethnic entity toward a nation??? u cannot and when it happens, it is the serious crime against humanity that history can ever witnessed…

    now im not saying that uguys are the same as the jews but lets put it like this…uguys are taking the similar road as them…and it is very dangerous!!! An ethnic entity can never been forced to be a nation entity coz it will deny other peoples rights

    what uguys can think of is only war and attack this and that country if u are not happy…what are u??? bibarians??? even though u wanna be ones…id say in this modern days… u are the ones who will lose a lot!!! look at timor leste…u bibarians just solve problems by arms and confrontations, and at the end what happened??? what about acheh and other problematic regions do you have??? gonna go the same way also huh???

    uguys really have a very bad policy on foreign and domestic affairs…not to mention ur economic and social which are arranged haphazardly. well then if u are so proud of your culture and geopolitics condition, it doesn’t really can’t help much on ur other sectors, does it???

    u said we don’t respect other cultures do ya??? now i wanna u prove from somewhere does da malaysian batik that we introduce to da international level are the same as indonesians??? no..its totally different!!!! batik is the general term that we describe these kind of fabric, and what really differentiates its origin is their pattern!!!! we are not taking any of ur indonesian batik pattern, we have our own batik pattern…

    this is a simple example….cigarettes originated from america but hey now u can get dozens kind of cigarettes from all part of the world including that gudang garam of urs…. now would we say u copy cat other peoples culture??? the hell no coz cigarette is the general term and what really differ is the brand that shows the origin lah

    i think even if this simple principle uguys cannot understand…i would know what level of thinking are u at….uguys can carry on mumbles, threat us whatsoever…u can never stop us from doing whatever we have the right to do…and we will continue doing it whether uguys like it onot

    at the end of the day…of course it will be a sad day for u….

    Like

  24. Dear Kamarul,

    A Malay in Malaysia is defined as: (1) a person who is a Muslim of the Sunni branch of Islam of the Shafie mazhah (school) of thought, (2) having both or one of the parents as Malays, (3) habitually living according to Malay culture and customs including having Malay as a mother tongue, and (4) parents or ancestors from any part of Malay world but having lived in Malaysia on or before Malaysia day.

    Refer to above definition, what do you mean as Malay culture ? It is still unclear for me ….

    Like

  25. pasal SO7, radja , samson pun bising

    aku dan kawan-kawan aku minat metallica , green day , gnr .. amerika tak bising pun

    eleh indon .. itu aje dia da selain tu kepapaan , kebuluran aje
    —-
    Pak Cik, kamu salah contoh dari banyak orang melayu yang saya temui di KL sini…

    Selalu cakap inggris dan ingin sekali jadi orang puteh…. Tapi sayangnya cuman kulit luar aja yang ditiru …. jadilah Mat Rempit .. Hahahaha…

    Like

  26. Hwahahahahaha..Sorry..I can’t stop laughing. Malay language is so hilarious. No wonder they adore and use our language there.Hahahaha.. Hey goblok gonjol, you made my day with your uneducated language.

    Like

  27. ramadhan… mari menahan diri dan tidak saling memaki…Unspun, I’ve never been to malaysia so I can’t help with you request
    but surely I like my country, as it is.

    pejuangan said:
    indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..lepasni pun ada lagi kot..

    pejuangan, do you realize ? siapa saja tersangka pelaku bom itu ? mereka mengaku ditraining di Malaysia! Bahkan tersangka bomber di Indonesia yang paling dicari kemarin (dr Azhari) pun berdarah Malaysia!

    Sorry for bringing up this delicate matter, but please dont start with this bomb thing. Many people get killed and our nation suffered and mourn with the world since then for the loss of so many souls.

    Peace!

    ps: with Rasa Sayange, it is Indonesian loss that does not guard carefully its asset, so just be ready from now and jangan sampai terulang lagi. I’ve heard that JAHE pun sudah dipatenkan Jepang…Indonesia, take care of your assets & heritage!

    Like

  28. Wahai teman2ku dari Indonesia…katakan saja anda mahukan royalti nya! mau kann??!!…

    50/50 ??! 60/40 ??! ato gimana??! yahh jangan kawatir! tenang saja semua bisa di atur kok!…pokok uang kannn??…hi hi

    Like

  29. Jangan gadoh! Apa la.. govt nak alihkan perhatian rakyat dia dengan nasionalism la.. Malaysia pon sama, everytime ada big issues internally, we start to shoot to singapore. Furthermore, kan heritagenya sama both countries, kalau tidak masakan org KL macam org gila pergi Bandung shopping sampai senget kapalterbang. The problem now lies with Malaysia Tourism Board sbb didnt check the facts carefully first. Idiots. Regarding the TKI yg banyak buat onar di Malaysia, what can you expect? From 150 mil orang, mestilah percentage yg jahat ada n jadi besar no dia ..

    Korang gila nak perang… 26 juta ngan 150 juta… dahla sket, cina ngan inda sure lari dulu, yg melayu takde duit dok nganga.. yg org UMNO ade kat australia dah… bodoh ape korang

    Like

  30. well then, when we talk about malay race in the world which includes malaysia, indonesia, singapore, brunei, south africa and other nations that have malay comunities, for God’s sake does it seemed rational for u firdausj to use the definition in a constitution of a nation??? it is absurdly weird for u to think of that coz it doesnot make any sense. the definition in the constitution of a nation only applies for that single nation and not for the whole archipelago lah… even high schoolers can think about this becoz ur totally out of the context!!!!

    i would say a call for a war is outrageous and inhuman. any differences should be settled through a negotiated solution based upon common ground, laws and facts. wake up lah, this is not those ice age when people always go to war and so, be matured lah. talking english does not actually means that my mother tongue is technically unacceptable…but u know we have to respect those in the world that do not understand this language lah.

    now if u wanna to protect ur heritage please go on but those that u cannot prove which is urs, please let it go…don’t steal something which is supposed to be the heritage of an ethnic to be a heritage of ur nation and u denied other peoples’ right.

    when we talk about offensives gestures, its a very objective matter to be defined. both sides say both sides are practically offensive, so to call it as a common base for accusations are totally unacceptable. unless u talk about facts and laws, it is more rational and more acceptable…

    i re quote again:
    “Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
    “Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia

    does this statement really showed that factually and based on laws as the common ground that the song is actually does not belong to indonesia. hey this is not a malaysian that i quote but an indonesian same as uguys. but the glaring difference between him and u is that he talks based on facts and law but u is based on ur emotions and its irrational

    i would have had only a single indonesian or anybody that can really give me a prove somewhere that his statement is wrong…but then we will have to argue again later…so far NOBODY seemed to have challenged my facts and arguments well enough…

    Like

  31. Dear kamarul,
    i don’t know what level of education you have, but obviously cigarettes can’t be analogied with batik in this case. Batik is a culture, while cigarette is NOT. And yes we are all aware of the crisis our country is facing, but at least we don’t need to steal anything from other countries. There are enough problems already and the last thing we need is a neighbour claiming our traditional cultures are theirs. The song “Rasa Sayange” origins from Indonesia (the language says it all) but Malaysia obliviously used it as a campaign to promote their country and that’s what started this conflict (again). They could at least mention the real origin of the song. But what’s their response to it when it’s brought up to the media? They talk all this shitshat about other things irrelevant from the real case. Stealing that you mention by uneducated Indonesians is unquestionably illegal and intolerable, but how about stealing other country’s culture by “royalties” and a nationwide government? Can you understand that analogy?

    But thanks for explaining that batik pattern difference, i hope that’s true. I’m just hoping that we legalize kebaya as our national costume real soon before “someone” steals it again.

    Like

  32. 1. Nobody can really answer your Q?
    2. Now u said AMBONESE are part of MALAYS culture? Maybe you don’t even know what does AMBONESE look like, dude. :p oh ya, AMBONESE live in INDONESIA and MALUKU island is in Indonesia. So, whatever culture they have, it belongs to INDONESIA
    3. No comment about jews since its irrelevant.
    4. What is bibarians? U mean barbarians? Listen mate, INDONESIA HAS 17,508 islands, myASSia only have 99. Gee, shut up, u don’t even any idea how hard it is for us to maintain all those islands. And yeh, what is haphazardly?
    5. Batik, how bout u open this first, smartass, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batik Its an ancient tradition of Indonesians
    6. Cigarette. Lol. People don’t call their product cigarette right? Unlike Malaysian calling their product as batik. What a tool. You guys have no idea at all.

    Like

  33. my last comment is for kamarul and so much for your stupid comments.

    rasa sayang song is belong to indonesia.

    and its a shame for myASSians to use that song.

    “bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” – “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”

    Like

  34. pejuangan said:
    indon harap BALI jer..tu pun dah kena bom 2 kali..lepasni pun ada lagi kot..

    pretty said:

    pejuangan, do you realize ? siapa saja tersangka pelaku bom itu ? mereka mengaku ditraining di Malaysia! Bahkan tersangka bomber di Indonesia yang paling dicari kemarin (dr Azhari) pun berdarah Malaysia!

    Sorry for bringing up this delicate matter, but please dont start with this bomb thing. Many people get killed and our nation suffered and mourn with the world since then for the loss of so many souls.

    “precisely, pretty, now the real terrorists are myASSia, they did a massive propaganda on the jamaah islamiyah to bomb Bali”

    shameful ay?

    its not about winning, its about how you win. even with this tourism mater.

    i dont know the word for malaysians and its tourism board. shameful indeed.

    Like

  35. theres no need to lengthen the debate whos who, just prove it that its urs, thats all that matters. from what i know there is NOBODY can challenge me by giving out the fact that an INDONESIAN guy

    Pengerusi Majlis Hak Cipta Indonesia, Enteng Tanamal, berkata tindakan untuk menyaman Malaysia mungkin tidak akan berjaya kerana tidak ada siapa tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu.
    “Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka,” katanya. kenyataan ini sudah cukup jelas bahawa lagu ini bukan kepunyaan indonesia

    so uguys can go upto anything to say whatsoever u like..the fact that u can’t prove it urs say it all…until somebody say that this INDONESIAN guy is a total moron that i would take it seriously onto further debate whether it is really indonesian but till then the song belongs to nusantara, no country have ever been claimed that it is theirs

    Like

  36. and another thing…i really don’t think that a war is necessary but if uguys still insisting on it, let us check on the record

    if indonesia with its so-called really strong army cannot really maintain its region ie losing timor leste for instance. for that matter timor leste didnt really have an army…i would wonder what would happen if indonesia attack a nation with an established army though…hehe

    Like

  37. Yo guys. Good to see a spirited discussion and debate going on here. Just two things to ask of all the participants here:

    1. Keep the arguments skillful. Avoid name calling, substantiate arguments and address main thrust of arguments rather than nit picking.

    2. Please, please take some time to post a comment in the Now to Rasa Some Sayang post.

    Apart from that, fire away and enjoy yourselves!

    Like

  38. salah ke guna lagu rasa sayang. kami tak mencuri lagu tu tapi kami mewarisi dari orang Indonesia pun dah ramai jadi warga Malaysia kalau betul lagu rasa sayang itu dari Indonesia. Jika tidak mahu khazanah Indonesia yang lain diwarisi orang Malaysia kamu ambil balik warga kamu di Malaysia sebelum warga kamu berkahwin disini dan beranak pinak disini. tarian naga dan singa dari China pun sudah menjadi kebudayaan disini tetapi China tidak mengambil tindakan seperti kamu. Kami tidak mencuri budaya China tetapi mewarisinya saya pun pernah melihat org india di Malaysia menyertai kumpula tarian singa ini yg majoritinya org Cina. jadi apa masalahnya jika orang Indonesia yang menjadi warga Malaysia mewarisi lagu Rasa sayang itu kepada anak cucunya dan anak cucu dari keturunan itu berkongsi lagu itu pada semua bangsa di Malaysia. Skarang lagu rasa sayang itu sudah sebati dalam jiwa rakyat Malaysia tidak mengira kaum melayu, cina, india dan byk lagi.

    Like

  39. @kamarul:

    lol. what an answer I have already predicted by those prick malaysians.

    all you know is just defending your stupid country, without knowing whether they are right or wrong.

    as I said, u have no idea what is AMBONESE people, ambonese culture, ambonese languange, and ambonese folk song.

    when did myASSia exist?

    when did Indonesia exist?

    when did AMBONESE culture, songs, language exist?

    lol

    how bout that? plagiarists?

    just admit that Indonesian’s culture is far richer than malaysian’s, and malayshit just too jealous to us.

    now youre talking about timor leste. lol. see. u keep proving that you are a stupid poofter in every posts. timor leste did not have army, they are backed by Australian’s army. now you think, studge.

    my Gosh.

    Like

  40. @sayang:

    its not we do not like u’re singing our folk song, hehe. we know that your country does not have many good folksongs.

    it’s about commercializing those songs into your “truly assia” campaign.

    that’s not fair. since it is our assets. not yours.

    but its just shame.

    “bangsa yang besar adalah bangsa yang menghargai budaya sendiri dan budaya orang lain” – “big country is a country that respect their own culture, as well as other countries’ culture”

    Like

  41. yeah yeah yeah accusing, with all kind of bad words, dats all u can do, none less!!! just one thing u couldnt do, to prove that the Indonesian copyright guy is wrong…and yeah australian army is the ones fighting indonesian army under the UN banner…i don’t know since when there was a UN resolution sending an army to counterattack indonesian army…i thunk ur still dreaming how NATO droved out those Serbians.

    theres no need to repeat any of ur non sensible facts with addition of” i don’t know what culture that teaches u those bad words???” just admitlah u lost timor leste and u cannot prove that this song is urs….theres no need to mumbles around though

    Like

  42. Pak Cik Kamarul,

    Sadarkah anda bahwa anda dan rekan-rekan anda adalah korban dari hasil “indroktinasi” selama 50 tahun ini ……

    Sadarkan anda bahwa definisi “Malay” di konstitusi negara anda adalah salah satu contoh dari “pola pikir” yang “keliru” sejak awal pembentukan negara anda ….

    Sadarkah anda bahwa pemebelaan yang dilakukan oleh menteri anda hanyalah akibat “pola pikir” yang ‘keliru” tersebut ….

    Saya pribadi memaklumi situasi ini …. tapi bagaimana dengan yang lain ?

    Sorry, if I have to say it in Bahasa ….

    Like

  43. its not mine, did i say it’s mine?it belongs to AMBONESE ppl, and ambon is in Indonesia territory. thats the fact. lol.

    and yes, i admit that indonesia has lost its timor leste, coz its just a useless territory (unlike aceh). no wonder indonesian government did not put as much effort to block timor leste to leave indonesia as they did on Aceh.

    precisely, youre the one who mumbles by talk about jewish, barbarians and all those crappy thing. remember?

    haha.

    robber!

    Like

  44. PS kamarul: look at the comment from who dare to say the truth and to all my comments above.

    and just look at the fact that your ministers are just too stone-hearted to admit that your country has too low in cultural richness compared to Indonesia.

    Like

  45. ??? who dare to say the turth…sorry to say but um i don’t get any dat u said

    myASSia: its not mine, did i say it’s mine?it belongs to AMBONESE ppl, and ambon is in Indonesia territory. thats the fact.

    Fact??? wat is the fact??? was it being registered by ur copyright ppl that it is indonesian??? if it was so, why the head of that council contradicted with u??? who is actually in charge of that agency, u or him??? is he working for u???

    Like

  46. and um about my country’s cultural richness, i would have said it has its own unique form…multicultural society intermingled between dozens of ethnics mainly malay, chinese, indian, iban, dayak and so on!!! i think uguys have never understand our cultural richness as the way u talk were so like don’t really know what it is all about

    in contrary with indonesia which practices that panca whatever things, although it embraced independent from the colonial much earlier than malaysia itself, from the history itself u can see it is not a matured and civilized nation. malaysia by the way, we settled our differences based on common ground, rationalism. we endured pain calmly and maturely quick enough to learn that violence and hatred can never solves problem in any way. the largest scale of conflict within malaysia was in 1969, thats nearly 40 years ago.

    indonesia for meanwhile still gasping where to find the common ground within its failing society with failing economic, geopolitics and social system. it never learnt from past mistakes, and still continuing taking the wrong path…as if war can solve everything, the language of hatred and confrontational can solve everything…thats why u got a lot of domestic problems that u have to take care of…

    based on these facts i would make things clear up…achievements of both nations in comparison of the duration it takes for each nation to become really matured and civilized…is the only thing that we can see clearly that which nationbuilding is failing…

    Like

  47. I want to comment on kamarul question…

    The fact that we don’t know who is the first writer of the song does not mean that anybody can use it without permission or claim that it is theirs.

    Many of world’s songs that the writer is unknown, especially old song or traditional song. The right of this songs belongs to community.

    In indonesia, we recognize that this song comes from Ambon (not from malay ethnic or javanese or bataknese) although we don’t know the writer. We acknowledge the people/community which it belongs to…

    And it is not about royalty, i believe most indonesian will be satisfied if it is acknowledged as indonesian/ambon song…

    thank you

    thank you

    Like

  48. if you cannot prove it, it’s better you STFU lah. Indonesia has more important issues like their Corruption Perception Index which was released recently by Transparency International shows that their ranking is 143 out of 180 countries with rank 1 being the least corrupt and 180 being the worst.

    According to dictionary corrupt means lacking integrity, decayed, infected, wicked, evil, to lower morally, to be dishonest and to destroy integrity. Don’t Indonesia want to claim these virtues as also part of their assets and heritage?

    Malaysia is not a saint either but we’re at least 100 ranking above you at number 43 but you are now in tong taik in terms of corruption. are you not ashamed of this? or maybe you need to forget this and feel good about yourself by bringing up a non-issue about us using a song that belong to the archipelago rather than a specific country.

    Like

  49. well i wanted to reemphasized on sweet wednesday’s comments:
    The fact that we don’t know who is the first writer of the song does not mean that anybody can use it without permission or claim that it is theirs.
    Many of world’s songs that the writer is unknown, especially old song or traditional song. The right of this songs belongs to community.

    now let us look upon it again, the first statement is “the fact we don’t who is the first writer” which means the exact particular owner of this song is unknown. secondly “does not mean that anybody can use it without permission”, then logically if we do not know the owner of the song, then from whom should we seek the permission??.

    third “The right of this songs belongs to community.” and “In indonesia, we recognize that this song comes from Ambon” so clearly she literate the community that owns the song is in Ambon, now i would like to emphasize that it is not now, it is at the time the song was first introduced.
    Then in brackets she said “(not from malay ethnic or javanese or bataknese)” which she stressed upon that it is not belong to any ethnic, making it more of Ambon (a place) rather than ethnic.

    well logically we can say the owner of this song belong to people who was at Ambon at the time the song was introduced. now the people there could be of any ethnic background, and i believed this happened long2 time ago. Humans population do migrated from places to places over years and those people at Ambon at that time might have been spread to the whole world.

    now lets assumed that logically people those days migarated to places near to them due to the impoverished transport system at that time. so i would say the nusantara is the best scope of region that can be reached within the context.

    lastly it is concluded that its a song of nusantara becoz the ancestral heritage of it had spread beyond geographical boundaries. so it is not a song a nation, it is a song of the region, it is song of nusantara, and everybody in nusantara has the right to access it. Claiming that this entity as a nation’s right is a denial toward rights of other people from other countries…

    Like

  50. Pak Cik Kamarul,

    Sebetulnya saya malas kasih komentar lagi sebab ternyata kamu nggak sepintar yang saya sangka sebelumnya ….

    Tapi komentar anda yang terakhir (sama dengan pendapat Menteri Kebudayaan anda) itu sangat sangat sangat berbahaya …. To legitimate that you have right to steal the heritage from other ethnics in Nusantara ….

    Why don’t you be a “gentleman” for once, and admit that your country, even though very wealthy, lack the creativity that you have to “steal” from Indonesia since the beginning of time. If you got any dignity at all, apologize and repent. Give your countrymen a chance to prove they are capable of creating their own tunes and stop being petty thieves.

    Honestly speaking, we gladly share the things that are ethnic Melayu like Kebaya, Songket, Zapin, etc because they are our shared heritage. But we can’t tolerate if Malaysian want to steal other indigenous Indonesians heritage that didn’t originate from the peninsula….

    Jika anda ingin dihargai oleh orang lain, maka anda juga harus menghargai “hak milik” dan “kekayaan budaya” orang lain juga ….. Do you understand .. Pak Cik !!!

    Like

  51. STEALING in this context is defined as an act to take something from a person, shop/store etc who owns it, without permisssion and without intending to return it or pay for it. now it looks like im gonna give something like an english lesson.

    in order for us to prove that an act of stealing really occurred, we must fulfill the definition of stealing for that matter. first is “an act to take something from a person” which in this case we have to prove that this act of taking something really happened. now malaysia said this song is not indonesian becoz indonesia cannot prove that it is their, so it belongs to nusantara becoz of its ancestral heritage and i don’t recall malaysia saying that this song belong to us, all the while we are saying we have the right to use this song as nusantaran. indonesia in otherway claimed that this song belongs to them although they could not prove that it is their. so, the one performing the first rule of stealing by taking something which is not their is INDONESIA.

    secondly, those who said it was taken away from must prove that the song is actually their. for this matter even the president of ur copyright thing cannot prove it, so the statement that says it is indonesian is just something crappy that uguys created without any backing proofs. malaysia on the other hand said that this song belong s to nusantara and based on facts and logical jurisdiction, it can be easily proved, i bet in any court of justice in the world.

    thirdly, “without permisssion and without intending to return it or pay for it”, for this matter i questioned uguys, as if it is really urs, the writer of this song is unknown, so who would i pay for it, or return it or ask permission from. if u would say from indonesia, it cannot be becoz the owner of this song is logically people who were at Ambon at the time it was introduced. now these people might have migrated to other part of nusantara, there might not stayed until now within the geographical boundaries of indonesia. plus one more jackpot proving that this song is more of nusantara rather than indonesian.

    i would say from the above criteria, indonesia has become more appropriate to fulfill most of the criteria needed to classify it stealing the song from nusantara as if the claimed that the song belong to indonesia and not nusantara. malaysia for the meanwhile did not even fulfill a single criteria as the one stealing….

    Like

  52. @kamarul: I admire your passion. Even though I may not agree with some of the things you said, I think you have contributed to a very heated and so far quite healthy exchange of views.

    But is there anything about Indonesia at all that you like? There must be something in this land of 240 million that you like. Do you mind posting what you like on the “Now to Rasa Some Sayang” thread?

    @who dare… @kersani @sweet wednesday

    Unspun admires your passion too but can you guys post about one thing you like about Malaysia as well in the other thread?

    Unspun, and I think Unspun’s readers are too, is curious whether in the heat of your passion you still retain the ability to appreciate that “the other side” usually has redeeming qualities too.

    Other than that…continue with your most spirited discussion 🙂

    Like

  53. im giving two thumbs up for few comments left lately from other threads. first to opah on now rasa some sayang. u know shes been making the point why im saying ur social policy that panca whatsoever is failing in its first place. it tries to assimilate the difference race and religions. for me technically it is dangerous becoz u does not appreciate the identity of each race and religion

    in malaysia the social system is a bit safer, trying to integrate those races and religions, not assimilate. in any nation there should be a problem including malaysia but i think this is rather a better a good platform rather than those in indonesia

    second to kemsey and long john on Malaysian Tourism Minister on Rasa Sayang: saying that how come the malay language which is the minority in indonesia was chosen to be the indonesian language and not those javanese language which is the majority. what a shame choosing a minority language to be become ur national identity over those javanese and the other craps haha

    Like

  54. Hi unspun….

    well… thank you for asking those question…
    off course there are things that i like from malaysia…

    since my last visit to malaysia was on 96, so i don’t know much about it now.

    I like siti nur haliza, i like the thinking of mr. mahathir (not all..off course), and i admire how malaysia develops their human resources… among others..

    I believe that your question leads to the call that we should not blindly hate each other … and i strongly agree with you…

    I would like to comment also to kersani, that your arguments seems to be out of context. Well i also disappointed of Indonesia’s record on corruption, but there are a lot more that we love about this country. This has nothing to do with our disappointment when Malaysia use Indonesian song without acknowledgment…
    I have many other things to criticize about Malaysia.. but I’ll try to limit myself on this issue..

    comment on kamarul :

    kamarul said : ‘well logically we can say the owner of this song belong to people who was at Ambon at the time the song was introduced. now the people there could be of any ethnic background, and i believed this happened long2 time ago. Humans population do migrated from places to places over years and those people at Ambon at that time might have been spread to the whole world’.

    I cannot agree with the statement… people of ambon also migrated to java, kalimantan, etc, and married to other ethnic. But people in other indonesian island knows that this song originated from maluku…
    along this line and following your statement, than Malaysia could also say that this song is popular in nusantara which was originated from Ambon (part of Indonesia)

    And this didn’t happen long-long time a go…

    ‘Dave’ said in our very early discussion that indonesian navy spreaded this song through nusantara in 1950s..
    also in early discussion ‘Made’ said that malaysia knew this song when the ‘titian muhibah’ program existed… it was in 80s or early 90s… (probably some of the readers can ask TVRI to provide us with the footage..)

    Even during my elementary school (80s) and during my brother’s (70s) we already played it in school. At that time i had traditional song book of indonesia which listed all indonesian traditional songs.. and one of them off course rasa sayange from maluku..

    I still remember myself played the song with suling… and my teacher will ask me.. ‘where this song comes from ?’
    I said ‘Maluku, bu guru…’

    thank u

    Like

  55. my point is in malaysia, we got malays that originated from part of indonesia eg minang, javanese, bugis and so on along with other ethnics. in indonesia also u uguys got this, javanese, malays, ambonese and so on. now the respective ethnics nowadays does not confined to a geographical boundaries.

    thats why i ask uguys to prove to me factually, based on law that this song belong to indonesia which i means there is legal binding that this song is really urs. the problem is u cannot prove it and that is what im questioning about when uguys are claiming it. if let say uguys can prove it that it is urs, so be it, nobody gonna challenge that.

    when nobody cannot claim that this song is their, so this song is better off belong to the region, let everybody use it, let everybody make it as their culture and theres no need to say somebody stealing it from you even though u cannot prove it is urs. u get what i mean??? of course this song originated from maluku, im not questioning it but when u say it belongs to indonesia and no other country can use it commercially then im asking a just question, whether u got any legal binding by saying those.

    regarding migrated population, nobody can question their right to practice what they believes in, their custom, their heritage and their culture. when u say it belongs to indonesia and nobody cannot use it, what about these migrated populations’ right??? u have been denying their basic right of a human being, which is totally wrong. look at china, it got migrated population in alot of nations in the world even in the pacific, america, asia and so on. have u heard any conflict involving china restricting other nations from practising their culture, the hell no. becoz they are not so stupid like uguys that donot understand that cultures go whereever the population. not to mention other races too

    just cut the crap already, u cannot prove it is urs and please donot deny other people’ right to their own culture.

    Like

  56. Malaysian Theft

    How dare you guys have a good banter without inviting me? Unspun should be spanked!!! (but he’ll probably enjoy it too much )

    Now, if you guys read my article on this, you would have known by now that 75% of all Peninsular malays are Javanese migrants. The rest of the Peninsular Malays are migrants from Sulawesi (aka Celebes), Molukas, Kalimantan (although in small numbers only), Sumatera and so on so forth. As such, it is very understandable that these Malay migrant brought over their craftsmanship and art over.

    Point being, all Malaysian anything is brought by all the pendatangs. Who is a pendatang? Everybody is a pendatang. The Sons of the soil theory simply does not hold water outide parliament (which by the way is still leaking).

    So, let’s examine where all these pendatang brought their craftsmanship from. “The Keris is a Malay weapon” Boys, wave it around as much as you wish, it is on a stone relief in Borrobudor. Borrobudor is in Java. And the carving was done circa 600AD. Just about 100yrs before the Prophet Mohamed saw was born. It is on a Hindu carving. Why? Although Borrobudor is predominantly Buddhist, the Hindu-Malays carved the Beautiful and magnificent Keris with Ganesan. Who is Ganesan? Ganesan is son of Siva. Ganesan bin Abdullah? No, it’s Ganesan bin Siva. Supreme God of the Hindus. And Ganesan bin Siva is holding the beautiful magnificent symbol of the Malays.

    I believe the Indonesians are nice already. If they wanted to “sue” Malaysians, they could have sued over the use of the Keris for copyright infringement on the logo of the UTANO twice (united truly Asia national organization), coz the UTANO logo simply bears 2 (two) keris’. So the Indonesians were already very kind.

    Next, we have the Batik. You have designer fashion plagiarism executed to the max, by all Batik manufacturers around Malaysia, since every single brochure claims that Batik is a truly Malaysian creation. (somebody sue them please).

    Another fashion plagiarism is on the attire of the wayang kulit. The Siamese can also sue Malaysia for clothing copyrights infringement, coz not a single soul in Malaysia dresses like the Wayang Kulit characters.

    Ah, but even the Wayang Kulit hero. The Supreme Superman of the Wayang Kulit is another theft. His name is Ramayana. He is not even Siamese. Now, the Indians can sue Malaysia for stealing his identity. What am I talking about? Ramayana is a Hindu God Deity. Not only can the Indians sue Malaysia for character copyright, they can also sue Malaysia for defamation and mis-representation of the true nature of Ramayana. You see, Ramayana, a Hindu God, cannot be spreading the word of Islam, much like Kuan Yin cannot say “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”. So, you poor Malaysian people have been fed another set of lies without knowing that there are many lawsuits waiting if all these original creators came to file lawsuits.

    Shall we continue? Sure, why not. While we are at it, let’s look at the Rebana, Kompang, Gendang, Jiduk, Serunai, and so on so forth. Didn’t they all originate from Indonesia a well?

    We are just warming up. To continue the long list of lawsuits, we also have the Kuda Kepang, a true blue Javanese Pagan dance. What do you mean Pagan? Isn’t it a Malay dance? Sure, if you consider the fact that these ex-Indonesians used to be animistic pagans before becoming Hindu. So why is the Kuda Kepang a Pagan dance? Simple. Coz part of the dance involves all the dancers getting into a trance whereby they do really really bizarre things. Go attend any wedding in Johore, and you will see the Pagan Dancers rip coconuts with their bare teeth, or eat broken glass, and even lie down on the broken glas while someone else steps and jumps on their bodies. (Please watch Discover Malaysia when it goes on air to enjoy all these sights.)

    Even the simple Wau is another copyright infringement. Let’ not go through the full list or else, the entire Malaysian reserves will be spent paying royalties for the next 7 generations.

    What can Indonesia do about it? Simple. Indonesia can run it’s own set of Advertising campaigns announcing to the world that since all national Malaysian craft, language, people, skills, and intellect originated from Indonesia, that all the tourists should go to Indonesia instead of Malaysia to see the real authentic source of origins. And they can play the Rasa Sayang song at the same time. Since no one can claim ownerhip, why waste money on trying to prove its origins. Indonesians note, take advantage of the fact that Malaysia is pumping in an additional RM8million on top of last years’ Rm8million to publicize “Truly Asians”.

    Marketing experts call this the piggybacking concept. And no, I will NOT sue Indonesia for this idea. I am being kind. Well, on the other hand, Indonesians can always buy me a cup of coffee when this “piggyback visit Indonesia campaign” succeeds. Just remember to insist on playing “Rasa Sayang” when you do it.

    Like

  57. *Sigh*
    Malaysians just never learn. Must be a severe case of Amnesia. Didn’t I just give you all the run-down on the History of Malaysia? Or rather, the origins of the Malays? Unspun please show them the way.

    All self-claimed“true-blood” keris-wielding Malays are ex-Indonesians. As such, all crafts and songs, legends and stories originate from Indonesia. Together, they form the “Rumpun Melayu”. Unfortunately this Rumpun Melayu does not stop at Indonesia. It extends all the way up till Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand right up until Easter Island. The so-called “scientific” name is Malayo-Polynesian. (yes that is the correct spelling) It was rejected in 1870’s because of lack of evidence in classifying the Malays as a race. Hence the Linguistic constipated definition.

    In fact 75% of self-claimed True-Blood Malays are no more than ex-Javanese. The rest, are Bugis (Sulawesi), and the Sumatrans. Even the “Great Malaccan Empire” was a Sumatran migrant.

    Take the great “founder” of Modern Malaysia. The “Legendary” Parameswara. Who was he? Our “his-story” textbooks tell us that he was a Prince from Palembang who founded the great Malacca Empire. Apparently a small mousedeer kicked his dog’s ass so hard that he said that this was a good place to start a Kingdom.

    Number ONE) I’ve got very bad news for you. A prominent NUS Professor is about to publish a 600+ page TEXTBOOK, which in a nutshell summarizes that

    “MALACCA was INSIGNIFICANT”

    I’ve already read it. The facts clearly point in that direction. (E-mail me, and I will get you autographed copies of it when the book goes to print at the end of Oct)

    Number TWO) Don’t’ you think the tiny ass-kicking mousedeer part is a bit far fetched? Mind you, this is in YOUR CHILDRENS” TEXTBOOKS!!!! Do you want them to be fed that kind of CRAP?

    Number THREE) Here’s the REAL Story. Parameswara was the Prince of the Majapahit Empire. There was a Death Warrant on his head decreed by HIS OWN FATHER for wanting to usurp the Throne. He ran. He ran to Singapore. After a week, he KILLED THE SINGAPORE chieftain. (Its beautifully played out in a multimedia presentation in The History Museum of Singapore. I think I was the only one in the room, who was proudly clapping when I saw this) (even the Pasir Salak, Perak Museum confirms this with a marrionette) Since Singapore was under Thai rule at that point, The Siamese King issued Parameswara’s second Death Warrant. He ran to a place called “Biawak Busuk” at the mouth of the Muar River. As the Siamese were catching up with him, he ran away again. This time, to Malacca. By then, since his only source of income was Piracy by his Bugis followers, (who plied the Straits of Malacca), the Achenese issued Parameswara’s THIRD Death Warrant for Piracy of their ships.

    A runaway Hindu Prince called Parameswara with 3 death warrants on his head. That’s the founder of Modern Malaysia. Now why weren’t we told of this? Coz it’s embarrassing! That’s why! Wanna hear what else has been hidden? I’m merely scratching the surface!

    I was researching for any trace of the “Great Malaccan Empire” and sad to say, I did not find one shred of evidence at all! To visit “Historic Malacca” you see the Portugese Fort, and the Red Dutch buildings. You also see a “re-creation” of a big building they call the Palace. I want solid evidence of the “Great Malaccan Empire”. Not the “Great Portugese Empire”, or the “Great Dutch Empire”.

    The Malaccan Sultanate existed. Don’t get me wrong, but it was not THE Great Empire which one is falsely led to believe. It was more akin to a roadside canteen selling the-tarik.

    We now ask ourselves, what all this “Ketuanan Melayu” is all about. Transalated, it means the “Lordship of the Malays”. Let us all ask who the Malays have “Lordship” over? And is how they celebrate this “lordship” by frantically waving a keris (crooked knife) at public meetings on national tv like a Drunken Wiccan Ritual on steroids? Let’s all wait until the Malays release the “official” press release on whom exactly the Malays have lordship over.

    Until then, let’s all debate on the other fact, which is that Rais Yatim specifically stated that the Wayang Kulit is of Hindu origin. Not just that, the design are all clearly Siamese, to reflect the other northern migrants’ origins.

    Final word, Bengawan Solo is so much nicer than “Taste of Love” (rasa saying).
    And Anggun’s English Albums are far superior to Malaysia’s backward-driven-cheap-copies of crap metal of the 70’s. Not worth it. Forget it. The fact is, Malaysia will always be a B-grade copycat. And to think that the Foreign Minister made an ass of himself on Hard Talk on the BBC just not too long ago. Worse, he openly admits to copying others…..

    Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins. Maybe Indonesia wants to take over their “rightful claim” on Malaysia like in the 1960’s? So they are now spawning ideas about all that I’ve written so far….be warned. Don’t say I didn’t tell you.

    Truly Asia Boleh

    Like

  58. hey unspun, I’ve posted twice already on this and it still didn’t appear. if you read this and find my “mising post”, then you can delete this heads up. Thanx

    @Michael: Sorry about that but Akismet caught you. Have restored the posts. Note to other readers: if you post something and it does not appear, write me at ong@maverick.co.id and I’ll rescue your comments from Akismet.

    Like

  59. these are few updates on this matter: the malaysian cultural minister is ready to debate this matter based on law as the common ground saying to counterattack any indonesian argument saying that this song is their. he said that he had the proof based on extensive research on that matter. he said that the nusantaran peoples songs have been existed since sri wijaya period aledy that was from 6 to 13 centuries and that this culture had spread to the whole nusantara region and that NO NATION can claim that this song is their.

    i would say if any legal action will be ever taken by the indonesian government against the malaysian, that we must reciprocate by taking appropriate legal action against the copycats songs of malaysian singer P Ramlee such as Hujan di Tengah Hari, Kata Dari Kalbu, Apabila Kau Tersenyum, Azizah, Tjik Mamat (Che Mamat) and Jalei-Jalei ( Yale-Yale song which was taken from the Berdosa Movie 1951). these songs as he said in those days do not have copyrights due to at that time we believe that the songs must be allowed to be shared to find common ground by neighboring countries. these songs were copies made by indonesian singers such as Sjaugi (Shaugi), Hasnah Tahar and Rien in the early 1980-an

    however, because we have these records available with overwhelming proofs making any LEGAL action against the indonesian government is imminent, easily to be taken and the prospects of gaining alot is really significant. furthermore, it will give a nightmare backlash against the indonesian music industries.

    Like

  60. I think the minister should also look into their recent Sinetron called Bawang Merah Bawang Putih which is a copycat of our folklore as well. Their TV series was produced in 2004-2005 while we make a film titled Bawang Putih Bawang Merah way back during the Cathay Keris era in 1959 starring the late Latifah Omar and Umi Kalthom.

    http://www.filemkita.com/filem/b/bawang_putih_bawang_merah_01.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bawang_Putih_Bawang_Merah

    Like

  61. thanks mike for the informative facts…all this while ive been saying that the culture goes wherever the people goes. u can call me whatever u like, like i care but u just prove that we have migrants population all over the countries and that from these migrants population our cultures originated. u said they are ex-indonesian, i would say indonesia didnt even existed at that time. if u say they are ex-javanese, ex-bugis, ex-minang, ex-siamese, then it cannot be. the ethnic of a person can never change whether he got to other places right???

    so now these javanese, bugis, siamese and so on stayed in malaysia. do they have the right to practice their culture based on their ancestral heritage??? if u said NO then u are denying the basic right of a human being to practice what the believes and their culture. so for me they have the bloody right to practice batik, those rasa sayang, wayang kulit, keris etc. now talking about keris somemore, wake uplah, u should do another research on this. u are making a connection between this keris and the ketuanan melayu concept.

    now let me tell u though, this ketuanan melayu crap is created by those UMNO people which means its a political concept. u go and do a survey on malaysian and ask them whether it is a concept for our nation. the hell NO, its political, they do this to boost the support from the far-right voters. not to mention that crap NEP things, u go and ask the malaysian, how many of them agrees on it???

    theres no need to do those crappy things, accusing somemore, u go and read my post above, does malaysia did fulfill the basic definition of stealing???? and who else fits better??? now for what u said about the wayang kulit and i really think u should do less research but think more. the answers are in ur statement but i bet u never think about it, do ya??? i would say YES its storyline is based on history but it is not really factual, its depiction. now i myself at the first place donot understand this coz im not so that art enthusiasts but u know its as simple as ABC. the storyline is a depiction of how a hindu prince from majapahit (parameswara) as Ramayana came to malacca, converted to Islam and his making his state as the center of Islamic spread, its just the characters that they emphasized on, u need to understand whats behind it really.

    now this ministers, do u think i like them the most??? the hell NO, this BN government should go down by any means, but why im saying like this is that in this matter they are making a good point. WHEN URE ACCUSING SOMEONE OF STEALING UR THINGS, U SHOULD PROVE THAT IT IS URS. im asking my indonesian counterpart who can prove that what the Indonesian copyright guy said is wrong, NONE of them prove it. im not that smart eh really and i dont really knows all the facts that u researched on but what im doing is that if they really think its their, then they should stand for it and prove it. NONE of them prove it, and what do ya expect me to say???

    im really sure that u need to think alot more, less research. ur statements are like contradicting each other. First u mentioned “malaysian theft” by which u didnt prove any, u just skirted around the facts without making any points on stealing itself. then with all the baseless accusations, u end up saying “Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins.” what a heck and what a crap things to say. first u said we are theft then u said both of us are twins. PLEASE thinklah, what twins have belong to both of them, none can claim that it belong to one person and none can say that the other cannot have it. the latter says it all, uve been very confusing at the very beginning but hey i couldnt agree more with u on ur last point. what a mess….

    by the way what are u??? bristish?? americans??? australian??? do tell me coz let me tell the others too what ur forefather or ur people did to other people. u are sure a very very bad “BATU API” for God’s sake. i read ur comments before even ur understanding on Islam itself is totally WRONG and hey im really sure u need to think more and less research….

    Like

  62. “…Thanks mike for the informative facts…all this while I’ve been saying that the culture goes wherever the people goes. u can call me whatever u like, like I care but u just prove that we have migrants population all over the countries and that from these migrants population our cultures originated…”
    MC: Am glad to help illuminate whenever I can

    “…u said they are ex-Indonesian, I would say Indonesia didn’t even existed at that time. if u say they are ex-Javanese, ex-Bugis, ex-minang, ex-siamese, then it cannot be. the ethnic of a person can never change whether he got to other places right???…”
    MC: Well, I used the term ex-Indonesians only to denote that they originated from Indonesia. Not as a political country, but a geographical one. This is in-line with the Indoesian Archipelago. Sorry if this confused you. But this is exactly my point from day one. The problem is, the Malaysian Government insists on creating and re-defining a brand new “race” which they call Malays. And this alone will conflict with the “Hindu Balinese Malays” and the “Catholic Sulawesi Malays”. By virtue of its definition, the Malaysian Government has added to the confusion of the Malay definition. So, when it is appropriate, the Balinese are sometimes called Malays, and sometimes not. What race definition is this?

    “…so now these javanese, bugis, siamese and so on stayed in malaysia. do they have the right to practice their culture based on their ancestral heritage??? if u said NO then u are denying the basic right of a human being to practice what the believes and their culture….”
    MC: No, way!! I believe that everybody HA THE RIGHT to practice their religion, craft, as well as set of beliefs from wherever they came from. The problem is claiming an external trait for its own, is creating this nonsensical abrogation.

    “…now let me tell u though, this ketuanan melayu crap is created by those UMNO people which means its a political concept. u go and do a survey on malaysian and ask them whether it is a concept for our nation. the hell NO, its political, they do this to boost the support from the far-right voters. not to mention that crap NEP things, u go and ask the malaysian, how many of them agrees on it???…”
    MC: God Bless you!!

    “…The storyline is a depiction of how a hindu prince from majapahit (parameswara) as Ramayana came to malacca, converted to Islam and his making his state as the center of Islamic spread, its just the characters that they emphasized on, u need to understand whats behind it really….”
    MC: I agree, but the one you mentioned is only one version. There are many other versions. In Kelantan they do have and play many other stories. Try visiting the Cultural Center. They will use the Wayang Kulit to tell many other tales as well. Albeit, all this is good when it comes to spreading values and such. Like I mentioned earlier, it’s like Kuan Yin saying “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life”….

    “…im really sure that u need to think alot more, less research. ur statements are like contradicting each other. First u mentioned “malaysian theft” by which u didnt prove any, u just skirted around the facts without making any points on stealing itself….”
    MC: I’m sorry I did not specify. You are right. I will now. All copyright infringements are considered theft (of intellectual property). So every example was indeed a theft. There’ an ancient Chinese saying, “Draw picture, no need draw intestines” (sheesh, sound like Yoda speaking) Ask any Chinese what this means.

    “…then with all the baseless accusations…”
    MC: Thank you for the heads up. I hope I’ve clarified it for you already of the theft examples.

    “…U end up saying “Culturally speaking, Malaysia and Indonesia are like dissected twins.” what a heck and what a crap things to say. first u said we are theft then u said both of us are twins. PLEASE think-lah, what twins have belong to both of them, none can claim that it belong to one person and none can say that the other cannot have it…”
    MC: You are one heck of an intelligent guy. I really like you already. I do. I do. You were able to see through the entire point which I have been making. Malaysia and Indonesia are the same people split by a political divide. The fact that the Malaysian Government insists that the miraculous “sons-of-the-soil” concept is just ridiculous!!!! I stress again, that the majority migrated from Indonesia. And if Malaysian Malays were to admit that they are indeed migrants, then you have EVERY right to use AND practice those crafts which were theirs from the very beginning. So the real provoking question is, does the Malaysian Government have the BALLS to admit to this? This would be jeopardizing the very notion of “we were here all along”. Bollocks!!!! The first “malays” started their migration to the Peninsular merely 3,000yrs ago. The Asli’s on the other hand were already here 60,000yrs ago. The second larger wave of migrations (from Indonesia) came during the Malacca period. The largest group of Indonesian Migrants came over DURING THE LAST CENTURY!!!!!

    “…The latter says it all, u’ve been very confusing at the very beginning but hey I couldn’t agree more with u on ur last point. what a mess….”
    MC: Only because the amnesiac Malaysian Government decided to cloud the issues by not highlighting the facts in chronological order, Why? Coz it doesn’t fit their political agendas.

    “…I read ur comments before even ur understanding on Islam itself is totally WRONG…”
    MC: Well, without starting WWIII, I am taking the politically “correct” stance on portraying Islam. This would be in line with my philosophy of promoting peace and harmony. I am fully aware of the “cancellation” concepts, and the 9th Sura and what it says. Do you know how much damage it can cause if I were to discuss opinion? Please do NOT TAKE ME INTO THAT DISCUSION in a public forum. I’d be more than happy to discuss it in private with you. After all, I do want to live till a nice old age. (I hope you do too)

    “…and hey, I’m really sure u need to think more and less research….”
    MC: Perhaps, but the headaches this idiosyncratic Malaysian Government is giving me a headache which no Panadol/ Asprin/ Tylenol/ Ibuprofen is able to cure.

    Like

  63. I’m a Malaysian, my parents are Chinese-Indian (my dad), and Javanese (my mom). My grandparents were immigrants, and as our family history goes, they were star-crossed lovers in true “Antara Dua Darjat” style, and had traversed the ocean to the shores of Peninsula so they could get married, bla bla bla.
    I’m not embarassed of that story – in fact it’s a part of my identity and I’m proud of it. I used to travel to Jakarta and Medan to visit relatives and love my time there as well.
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that there are also Malaysians who have roots in both countries and love both and watching the childish put-downs of one country from another is just sad.
    (btw I don’t see “Indon” as a derogatory term, and it’s definitely not valid if only one group of people with self-declared superiority issues make it such.)
    I think both countries have a lot of weaknesses. And both countries have a lot of wonderful things about them. And many of which are alike. I wish we’d just stop this argument – which is hard when the higher-ups of the countries decide to make it their own crusade for votes.
    I hate it when Malaysians blame foreigners for every single problem in this country. As if Malaysians don’t do anything wrong at all. And if we really wanted to reduce the illegal immigrant labor issue – think about it – what about the thousands of Malay penggangurs on a free education ride from the government (half the time with merely average academic qualifications compared to private scholars chosen on merit not race) who are too arrogant to work small jobs and waiting for the next pay off? We’ve got Cambodians and Thais and the rest of the region working in restaurants, stores and construction sites. They found a way to make a living, no matter how humble the job is – it’s a way to keep their families afloat. Malaysians just stick their noses in the air and think these “buruh” level jobs are below them. So who’s going to do these jobs?
    If all the immigrants left one day – Malaysians would be left with some major s*** in their hands. And then there will be some policy drawn up by some elected special committee wih a fancy name and big acronym to properly regulate a set of rules to allow foreign labor to do the jobs that are too menial for citizens of Bolehland.
    I wish Rasa Sayang could be shared, instead of fought over. And the music industry debate should just stop because it’s turning into an ego war also.
    I love Malaysia and I love Indonesia. I still refuse to indicate my ethnicity in every single Malaysian document (because we need to know who to give the discounts and hand outs to so much) because I think it doesn’t matter. I love the fact that so many beautiful cultures and traditions and art come from the different branches of my family tree that I can trace all over the world.
    So let’s just leave the trivial childish arguments to the people who do it best – our politicians – and rise above them as people who can actually learn from each other, and SHARE.

    Like

  64. Shortz, congratulations. You are among the very few I know who are of this opinion. You will need to help ensure that more such like-minded good people like yourself pass on this same desire of equality. I do fully agree with you that the arrogant Malaysians need to be brought down back to earth again. And that handouts shuld be limited to beggars. What boils a lot of us is the fact that some rich ass datuk’s and tan sri’s child is taking up space in the “handout” line for education scholarhips when the really needy are pushed aside. So what happens is the poor Malays in Malaysia become poorer and the rich become richer. The top level would try as hard as they can to ensure the continuity of this poverty to make sure that there are “examples” to show when they say “The Malays are dirt ass poor. Think I’m kidding? watch this segment on Hard Talk by the BBC and see how the Foreign Minister of Malaysia gets his ass grilled by the British

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6992908.stm

    if you install real media player, you can download and store it on your pc or convert it to a vcd for all your friends and family to watch.

    Keep it up shortz

    Like

  65. wow..now i realized the debate had gone way too outstretched… i would like to bring it to the subject again.

    Based on these few things we discussed:
    1. every person has the right to practice their culture, anywhere they go including those malays, siamese, javanese, ambonese, bugis and so on in malaysia
    2. the fact that the indonesian copyright head himself could not prove that the song is indonesian, so the malaysian MTB act of using the song commercially cannot be regards as stealing because it could not fulfill the definition of stealing.
    3. we knew already from the very beginning that most malays in malaysia are immigrants from indonesia. as mike said they are twins of the indonesian, so they shared the same culture, the same heritage, the same ancestors. and we shouldnot deny their right to their culture and so on, they can practice or commercialize or whatever as they like because it is their culture, their right and nobody can stop them

    so i wanna ask uguys a just question, to look whether u dare enough to answer my question, um especially mike though…

    Should the rasa sayang song belongs to nusantara or indonesia??? if not please specify why. And should we allow the MTB to continue to use this song commercially??? if not, pls specify why oso. i remind uguys the reasons must be facts and law…please donot repeat those crappy emotions

    Like

  66. hey!! quit picking on me, kamarul, I may have to spank you like I need to spank unspun… 😛

    As a filmmaker, I had to be fairly square on the Copyright Laws and the implied laws of the Bernie Convention. That doesn’t make me a lawyer, but we just had to understand it so that we do not contravene those laws when we produce films. So, here’s my take on the Copyrights laws to my best knowledge.

    It states in the Bernie Convention that all copyright ownerships cease to exist after the demise of the original creator of the song/ work of art/ tv show, etc. (In certain circumstances, this however, is renewable should an entity of the songwriter/ singer/ performer/ filmmaker, etc (ie trustee/ foundation and so on)). You have to read the Bernie Act/ Convention to get the full details.

    So one can re-write the songs, and re-record the songs in any way one wishes WITHOUT having to pay or acknowledge its original copyright owner at all if the songwriter/ singer has died for more than fifty years. This means, you can rewrite whatever you want from Elvis, as his copyrights have expired. However, you cannot just take his recorded songs, as the renewed copyrights belong to someone else. Dont ask me who; just check on their website details. In a typical song, there are multiple copyright owners. There is first the songwriter’s right, then the singer/ performer’s rights, and the musical performer’s rights, recording rights, distributor’s rights, and so on so forth.

    However, with the creator of the Rasa Sayang being unknown, and if both countries claim that they have been singing it for centuries simply means that the Rasa Sayang Song has relegated to what is termed as a folk song. For the same reason that you cannot trace the original creators/ songwriters of folk songs, the original writers cannot be identified. As such, one is free to rewrite and rerecord these type songs as they see fit. They cannot however, use a less than fifty year old recording of any other person’s song/ version etc for any purpose without written consent and usually some form of payment. If you have visited the MTB site, you would notcie that they have NOT infringed on the established copyrights conventions set forth and agreed by every single country in the world known as the Bernie Convention.

    And Malaysia is, thus not guilty. To address the question on whther it is ethical to use someone else’s song is thus, of another debate.

    Now, I know what you are going to say…. Why then all the lawsuits which I mentioned. Up until this point of me telling you all of this, I knew fully well that Malaysia has not contravened the Bernie Act. But my point and take is that Malaysian Malays refuses to acknowledge that they are migrants. They insist that they were there and will always want to be known as that they were there from the very begining of time. If they had it their way, they will tell you that Adam and Eve were Malay. Hence the “sons-of-the-soil theory”.

    If you’ve read my other article on “The Malays are not a race” you would understand exactly where I’m coming from and thus, the “copying” of crafts, in what I called “theft” was simply another way of showing how the migrant malays of malaysia has “adopted/ stolen” foreign materials to call their own.

    Unfortunately, with all the badgering and the massive mass deception propogated by the Malaysian government, the general masses have since forgotten that the Malays are migrants just like everyone else.

    But if I wrote it this way, it would be dull and boring for anyone to read. It would be too “technical” for some, and they would skip it. Thus losing the very reason that it was blogged in the first place. What’s the point if there will be no readers?

    capish?

    when ru going to balik kampong for raya?

    Like

  67. thanx…im going back on the day before raya, friday. got oncall on thursday, the raya season cause our emergency department full of 3 expected cases- motor-vehicle accident, crushed hand injuries due to that sugarcane machine and burns from firecrakcers. haha quite typical every year and suprisingly cases of other kinds dropped drastically.

    and about the origin of the malays, i wanna say its another misunderstanding among uguys foreigner. We do know that we are not originally from here, even high school textbooks stated that the parameswara was from java being chased by those majapahit ppl and some of us also from china. its not that we do not know, we know it and we admit it. its just that it was never mentioned in the constitution, got to blame those who created the constitution, u know who they are.

    i bet u know oso why they are doing this, for the NEP of course, so-called to protect the interest of malays and to throw away those malays who had converted to other religion or their culture, i think. the real thing is to protect the crony of their and make them even fatter. However, its a definition in the Malaysian Constitution, technically this has nothing to do with other malays in other countries. for u to have really fight it like hell for those malays in indonesia, i think to really make it as a reason to challenge the constitution is not sensible because its out of the constitution’s jurisdiction.

    about the “sons-the-soil” thing, i think again u all got it wrong. now this thing really didnt appear at the early stage of malaysian establishment. Because malaysia is actually a federation between numbers of sultanates in the peninsular. when we are nearing the independance from british rule, of course all the ethnics at that time have to unite, malays, chinese miners and indian planter. they sorts things out that the malays will give citizenship rights to the other ethnics that come later and the other ethnics should respect malays special rights in the constitution.

    later due to the 1969 ethnic conflict in malaysia, the UMNO created the NEP by using the malays special rights in the constitution to ensure nation’s wealth being divided equally bet all races. before 1969, most cities and economy were dominated by chinese. and of course those days most of the ppl support this because it plays an important role in rearraging the society, bring malays out from villages to cities and bringing out indians from plantations. but, it only worked those days and not these days.

    nowadays ppl aledy tired of it, because the wealth most go to their crony, even the malays poor were marginalized, not to mentioned chinese and indians, they are the worst, pity them. but then in order for the UMNO to maintain their political grip, they came out with this ketuanan melayu etc crap just to grab more on the far-right voters. technically they even lost malays votes in the 1999 general election but due to their alliance with chinese MCA and indian MIC, they were able to maintain power. In 2004 gen election, they came up with this redefining the election borders, analyzing their strength and weakness making them able to win more seats even with slim majority, so they got away with it lah…

    Like

  68. Unspun, please give Kamarul a spanking. He’s more long-winded than me, and I can’t take it any longer… hee hee hee 😛

    Just kidding. You are the few that dare to say it so openly. The rest of the Malaysian Malays simply grovel and wallow in self pity. Hoping someday that the miraculous NEP would help them out of the dumps. You, on the other hand are a med student. Keep it up man.. Malaysia needs more brains like you. The rest of the country is complaining enough about “Brain Drain” as the Chinese have been leaving by the planeloads.

    Like

  69. No not few, actually got alot especially those ppl that backs the Islamist opposition party that ruled Kelantan. u know for me these islamists are better of voted than those ultranationalist UMNO. although some of their policy like Islamic state, strict sharia law, hudud etc really scared away those non-muslim chinese and indians but these islamists really stand up for poor chinese and indians.

    u know why the opposition lost in 1999, the malays mostly voted the opposition but the non-muslim non-malays are so scared of these Islamist so they stayed with BN. at that time got alot of media propaganda and all to scare them away. i can assured uguys, in kelantan we can see it is more democratic than the rest of the nation even though it is ruled by islamists. just dont worry about the islamic state, sharia law and so on, those things are not meant for nonmuslims.

    even my chinese and indian friends who first came to this state is quite astonished. here u can get malay kids going to chinese schools, even can speak mandarin. restaurants here u can see got 2 parts, malays selling the food and chinese selling drinks, all in one roof. its really an integrated society even with all the media propaganda. im so proud that i can see these things…

    Like

  70. Assalamualaikum dan salam sejahtera untuk pembara ruangain ini .

    Saya adalah rakyat Malaysia. Saya harap sesiapa yang ingin memberi pendapat supaya menjaga tutur kata. Elakkan dari mencemuh atau mempersendakan Malaysia atau Indonesia.

    Saya tidak faham apa masalah berhubung penggunaan Rasa Sayang oleh Malaysia. Lagu ini sangat popular di Nusantara. Ianya dinyanyikan di Malaysia, Indonesia dan seluruh rantau Melayu.Saya tidak nampak salahnya Malaysia menggunakan lagu tersebut.

    Malaysia tidak pernah berkata ia milik Malaysia. Indonesia juga bebas menggunakannya. Marilah kita belajar antara satu sama lain. Sekiranya Indonesia percaya Malaysia melakukan “advertisement” yang berkesan dalam pelancongan, maka langkah yang lebih bijak ialah mempelajarinya.

    Tidak perlu malu. Tidak perlu rendah diri. Berkenaan Batik, ianya popular di Malaysia dan juga Indonesia. Malaysia percaya Batik adalah industri yang lumayan. Oleh itu Malaysia giat memperkenalkan Batik ke serata dunia. Tiada siapa yang menghalang Indonesia untuk berbuat demikian.

    Tidak perlu kita sakit menyakiti jiran. Masing-masing ada kelebihan. Gunakan kelebihan tersebut. Jangan suka mempersendakan orang lain. Lebih baik tumpukan usaha memajukan diri.

    Like

  71. Dear Michael.

    I refer to your statement with regards to Malaysian Govt’s “alleged” massive propaganda concerning Malays are actually migrants.

    Actually, it was not a propaganda. Malaysia was previously known an Malay states. It was then a worldwide recognition. What you fail to understand that Malays are the first race to set up system of governance here .

    What is world wide recognition. All foreign powers recognised such facts. All treaties were inked between Malay Sultans and foreign powers, be they were Dutch, or British. That act of of inking treaties showed that they recognised you.

    Even during the worst days of Malays( that was Malayan Union), British still recognised such fact. Malay Sultans were threatened to sign treaties with London to give away their sovereignty.

    Instruments of Independence itself was between London and Malay Rulers just weeks before August 31,1957.

    What I am trying to say is that the present structure of Malaysia is due to its history. Chinese, Indians are now citizens of malaysia. So, why ridicule malaysian Govt or Malays or UMNO.

    What I notice a lot of people like tend to forget is that Malays beside “receiving” also “gives” a lot. However due to the natures of Malays on not telling the whole world about their gifts, they are often chided.

    Not believing me? Please tell me who are State Assemblies or Member of Parliaments for constituents like Kulim, Lunas( Kedah), Gunung semanggol, sungai Siput( Perak), among others. With the highest of regards to these politicians, without Malay supports, all of them will lose election. Yes, UMNO receives Chinese votes also. And you cant deny that many MCA , MIC politicians will not survive without UMNO’s support. So , be fair while criticizing.

    The truth is that if UMNO had really wanted to rule the country on its own, it can easily do so. It had ample times to do so. If you care to look at number of UMNO state assemblies, you will notice that it can easily form state govts in many states.

    It is willing to give more than receive. It can easily take Chief Ministership post of Penang in 1990 if it had really wanted to as it is the party with the highest number of seats within Barisan National, But in humility, it allowed Gerakan to lead the state.

    I am not denying Chinese and Indian contribution in Malaysia. They contribute a lot. But To infer that Malays are good for nothing(that is how I feel after reading your remarks) is hitting below the belt.

    Malays have a lot of problems. So are the Chinese and Indians, each with particular concern. Malaysia( meaning UMNO led Govt) may not be perfect . Go on criticize but at the same time recognises that it also delivers.

    Like

  72. Great Shamsul, ur another rusted UMNO loyalist, u better wait for my comments on u later in the day, quite busy now…crap

    Like

  73. I am not denying Chinese and Indian contribution in Malaysia. They contribute a lot. But To infer that Malays are good for nothing(that is how I feel after reading your remarks) is hitting below the belt.
    MC: Perhaps that is just how you feel after reading th pot, and that is your right. However, you brought in a lot of Political parties and listed the great things they did and so on. I’m not challenging them and yet I’m not agreeing or denying them. What we have been discussing so far ha not been political. Why bring it in?

    MC: Didn’t I already tell you what we are all against? Pleae re-read this segement from tmy post above:

    “What boils a lot of us is the fact that some rich ass datuk’s and tan sri’s child is taking up space in the “handout” line for education scholarhips when the really needy are pushed aside. So what happens is the poor Malays in Malaysia become poorer and the rich become richer. The top level would try as hard as they can to ensure the continuity of this poverty to make sure that there are “examples” to show when they say “The Malays are dirt ass poor. Think I’m kidding? watch this segment on Hard Talk by the BBC and see how the Foreign Minister of Malaysia gets his ass grilled by the British

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6992908.stm

    This immediately tells you the main subject of discussion. The Malaysian Malays are NOT receiving their peruntukan. Plain and simple. I have moved around this country to see the lack of it. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, and I stand corrected when the facts present itself.

    “Malays have a lot of problems. So are the Chinese and Indians, each with particular concern. Malaysia( meaning UMNO led Govt) may not be perfect . Go on criticize but at the same time recognises that it also delivers…”
    MC: Most of us also agree that the government does deliver. That is not the question. The question is, as we all ask, at what rate. Improving from an attap hut to a zink sheet hut is improvement. But is it fair to the Malaysian Malays?

    Let’s look at how one “ex-state” of Malaysia has really changed their “Backwater Third World Country status” from having absolutely NO RESOUCES to becoming the ONLY First World Country in Southeast Asia. Look at how the S$ and the RM was of equal value. Why is the RM only worth 0.43 of the S$ today? Why is it that they could progress at a rate that Malaysia cannot? Where’s the Malaysia Boleh? To sya that Malaysian Politicans are deficient is unfair. But to say that corruption is too rampant that even the Local Malays are shortchanged and not given their appropriation is the reality.

    Since you brought it up, you mentioned that UMNO etc has had plenty of time. Sure, we agree with you, but isn’t that same time you just mentioned enough to bring Malaysia on par with its ex-state? Considering that Brunei has massive Oil resources, and that the Sultan of Brunei is one of the rivhest men in the world, and Singapore has none of the above, isn’t it amazing that somehow the two countries have equal monetary power?

    I’d be more than happy to eat my words when the RM is on par with the Singapore $. But until that happens, boys, there’s hell of a lot of work to be done. So let’s not pat ourselves on the back until that happens-ya?

    Like

  74. I don’t quite get why we, Indonesians, have to be so mad about this whole ‘Rasa Sayang’ issue. If we’re talking copyright, well… we’d have to ask ourselves: does the Indonesian copyright system actually exist… and if it is (as some musicians out there might point out), is it really working?

    It might sound so simple and shallow, but really, I think of this as something that’s effective to slap Indonesia’s music industry -and the government as well- awake. If Malaysia is considered ‘stealing’ our ‘musical asset’, then what have we done all these time to protect it?

    Several e-mails were dropped into my inbox today about this, asking me to sign the petition to protest Malaysia’s ‘stealing’. I didn’t even bother to check the petition link because by not signing it, I’m showing my protest to the Indonesian government on their laziness that caused the copyright overlooking.

    I am not defending the Malaysians here, just trying to think with a level-head. I mean come on, think of it this way: the Malays have at least a copy of one Indonesian song in their iTunes… and we Indonesians wouldn’t mind to sing along with Sheila Majid. And if the Malays are a wee bit faster than us to use one of our songs for their business, then whose stupidity is that? Sad to say that it’s ours. We didn’t guard what belongs to us carefully. So who’s to blame? As much as I hate to say this, it’s not exactly the Malays.

    Being a proud Indonesian does NOT mean we can point fingers and be rude. True we’ve been having major hiccups with Malaysia, but again that doesn’t mean we can run out of CLASS. If a fight is indeed needed eventually…

    …please fight gracefully.

    Because Indonesians are graceful and educated people.

    And for Unspun, thank you for bringing up this issue and manages to stay objective. I wanted to stay objective in the first place, but I’m sorry I have to tell you that nobody in this world can beat the real Ambonese when it comes to singing the ‘Rasa Sayange’ song 😀

    Like

  75. I think what the indonesia people really mad about is the fact that malaysian people claim the song is from nusantara. It belong to the ambonesse people, not the what you called malay song or nusantara song. We Indonesian is very aware of our diversed heritage… Aware enough that we rarely said its an Indonesian folksong. instead, we still recognized where it come from. Like cublak-cublak suweng is from Java, sajojo from papua, etcetera.

    There has been some bad relations regarding Indonesia and Malaysian gov these years. And the fact that Malaysian is often act like it wasn’t a big deal (like our karate coach beatings, ceriyati) is infuriates us. Its the “I am always right” attitude from malaysian gov is really like putting salt into an open wound. If you feel like you are educated enough to act differently,please dont follow your gov attitude. We Indonesian has learned to do so.

    Like

  76. If Malaysia ‘is stealing’ something from the Indonesians, what exactly do you Indonesian lose? Do you really lose a song? You are making fuss for something that you didnt care before. You didnt even use it as your theme to show any of your cultural pride!

    Remember one thing, Ambonese / Maluku was OCCUPIED by the Indonesian troops somewhere in the 50’s and later claimed it its own. Can we call this ‘stealing’? Therefore before that, Rasa Sayange had nothing to do with Indonesia at all. Can we call this an ‘occupied song’?

    How about the Happy Birthday song? Dont you feel like stealing something from someone during those ‘happy moments’?

    And If I recall, the only “serumpun” country that attacked and killed Malaysian people in an open war was Indonesia. What do we call this?

    Like

  77. In fact, the Indonesian people should thank their Malaysian counterparts for spreading the song to the whole world in their Truly Asia campaign. Have the Indonesians put up the same efforts to promote Rasa Sayange? I dont think so.

    And I think Malaysia is very capable of producing any ‘Malaysian-only’ song as their VMY2007 theme as they did successfully some few years back.

    I sense deep jealousy here. A diplomatic row for this little song would be utterly stupid!

    Like

  78. Dear kAMARUL.

    First, I do not have the habit of ridiculing others. and I am not even an UMNO members.

    With due respect to you, kindly refrain from that kind of insinuation should you wish to pursue a meaningful discussion. As for Malaysia, like every country on earth, there is poverty. But to quote “Malays are dirt ass poor” is demeaning. You of course, will be heralded but of course no respect will be accorded by those who even agree with you.

    There are poor malays. No doubt about that. I have seen some of them and feel like crying. But there is also a sizable segment of Malays in middle class section.

    How do they come to that level? Pure coincidence?Not necessarily. Hard work? Yes. And also govt’s help. There is no denying on that.

    Surely, you cant deny that Govt( meaning UMNO led Govt) does deliver. Sizable number of Malay professionals around the globe exist because our leaders had the courage to implement a practical policy although condemned by the western world; that is Dasar Ekonomi Baru.

    I may not be rich but certainly not dirt ass poor. Using that kind of language is an insult to malays. I am not sure whether you are a Malay yourself.

    As for Tan Sri’s son getting scholarship, please bring the matter to proper channel. As for Foreign Minister being grilled by BBC with regards to poverty, may I remind that poverty also exists on that part of Suez Canal. There are quite a number of homeless people .

    So, be fair while criticizing.

    Like

  79. Shamsul, you obviously did not watch the segment of Hard Talk. The Foreign Minister himself siad that the Malays are POOR. And I quote, “Even the Indians are richer than the Malays” He is the one demeaning the Malays, as you said. Check out also Jeff Ooi’s, Malaysia Today blogs for additional comments on this.
    Or better still, watch the programme yourself.

    The host never said that the Malays were poor at all. All she did was ask about the NEP, And Alba happily replied, and I quote, “…because of the NEP, the Chinese are now richer than ever. Even the Indians are richer than the Malays”

    I kid you not. Please watch the programme yourself. There’s a link somewhere above.

    Like

  80. Do you know how many (educated) Malays were insulted by that statement?

    BTW He (Alba) also mentioned that more non Malays are going to Universities in Malaysia when asked about whether non-Malays had opportunities to enter Universities in Malaysia.

    And in response to the issue of Lina Joy, his response was that no one in Malaysia is allowed to change their name on their IC. Period. Totally forgetting that when one converts to Islam (masuk Islam) one changes the name on his or her IC.

    Alba also said that one can freely change from being a Muslim to Christianity, or any religion that one wants to. He must have totally forgotten about the strict apostacy laws mentioned in the Koran, punishable by death. What type of hopeless Minister is this?

    I think you’d better watch this for yourself.

    Cheers Man

    Like

  81. If only the Malaysian Gov’t has the heart and sensibility of NOT using a song which is also acclaimed as a folk song in another country (Indonesia, that is) as a jingle for the country’s tourism advertising (thus making it sound like it originated from Malaysia), this kind of argument (and harsh comments from some Indonesians) will never show up. Indonesians are basically friendly people. They respect others who respect them.

    And by the way, a recording company from Solo-Indonesia turns out keeping a record of the song recorded back in 1962. According to James F. Sundah, a notable Indonesian musician, if there is ever a conflict between two countries over claim right of a song, it is the country keeping the first or earliest record which will retain the right. If you understand Bahasa Indonesia, please read the related article at http://www.kompas.com/ver1/Hiburan/0710/09/162051.htm

    Since Malaysia and Indonesia have so many similar culture, next time Malaysians claim something of their cultural heritage, please make sure you add “Malaysian” or “Malaysian version” in front of it, for example “Malaysian batik” or “Malaysian version of batik” instead of simply “batik”. I think that’ll help settle the case a lot. Thanks.

    Like

  82. malaysia itu yg lagunya mendayu2 dan gak punya cerita lain selain patah hati ya?
    waah kasian banget….haik..haik..haik

    Like

  83. Dear Michael.

    I was responding to Kamarul. He uses the insulting term “Malays dirt ass poor”. Now I know that there are quite a number of Malays who are poor. There is no denying on that.

    And you also cant deny that there are also poor Chinese and Indians and other races. Poverty is not limited to one race only. But to insult with the terminology “dirt ass poor”, is a relection of poor breeding. That much I can say.

    My point is very clear. En Kamarul may want to forget also sizable Malays in middle class section so that he can “basuh” his own government. These Malays may not be filthy rich but they have comfortable life.

    Whateever said and done, he himself cant deny that Malaysia is considered a success story in poverty eradication. Yes, there are still poverty like in every country on this planet. But he must also acknowkledge that his govt( meaning the govt led by the pary he hates, UMNO) does deliver despite warts and all.

    And despite whatever people said, our Foreign Minister is right. NEP does not make Chinese and Indiand poorer. And is it a fact that percapita income of Chinese is higher than that of Malays and Indians.

    As for rich Tan Sri’s sons getting scholarship, please bring the matter to proper channel. But Kamarul or anybody cant deny that ten of thousands of Malays from humble background had been given chances to pursue education overseas and also locally. I know as I also came from a very humble background. Without govt scholarship, I will not be able to be who I am now.

    And this is not my story alone. Today I have many kampung friends who are engineers in countries like Chad, Sudan, Vietnam. Perhaps En Kamarul should do some soul searching before succumb to this habit of ridiculing his own govt.

    As for your preoccupation ( and of course RaJA Petra) that malays are also migrants, that is your right. But do remember that world does think differently. If you care( if only) to peruse historical instruments, you will notice that Malays have been accepted as people of the land by everybody. All foreign treaties were inked between foreign powers and Malay rulers. As i said earlier, Instruments of Independence itself was actually a treaty between London and Malay Rulers, signed just weeks before August 31, 1957 to sever whatever administrative ties between Britain and then Malaya.

    I fail to see the the need to question such facts. In no way that such fact denies the rights of other races in Malaysia. That is the beauty in Malaysia. Right of every races is respected. Vernacular schools flourish in Malaysia, a rarity in this world. Non Malay politicians can still win in Malay majority area. No Malay politician I am sure can win in a Chinese majority area.

    As for our exchange rate with Singapore, En Kamarul may have forgotten that billions of ringgit “went down into drain” literally just to support artificial rate. Thank God, finally sanity prevails on those in corridors of power in Malaysia.

    I am not saying that there is no problem in Malaysia. Like any country, Malaysia has its share of problem. What I cant accept is the attitude of insinuating just because people like Kamarul and you think it is trendy to say so. I accept criticism, not insulting remarks.

    And if you do not like our politicians, just change them. Election is around the corner.

    Like

  84. You guys actually like brothers in fight which is so wrong, the one is too arrogant while the other is very weak in all conditions. But in my own fact, i don’t know why i met 99% artists are coming from Indon and 1% is from malaysia. (From music, design, craft, and arts). Been learning arts and such stuff since i was young.

    Another curiousity, when i tune up a local malay-radio here, the music is quite different in language, is that indonesian or malay? coz i got malay friend and they speak differently compare to these music

    As for rasa sayange / rasa sayang hey music, i heard once in insulinde film made by dutch an ages ago. Guess u can find it in youtube. and i knew dutch were occupied indonesia for 300 years, so it must be originated from this country.

    hmph, one of my old friend from java told me “Maling ora bakal teriak maling” = “Thief wont say themselves as a thief”

    lol. and this thread will never end.

    Like

  85. I really really think Indonesia government should protect the culture assets. There are many songs and crafts and more that has grown and has developed into its own characteristic in Indonesia for hundred of years now. Sometimes who created it is unknown. Now that is the very strong reason for another country to steal it And leave nothing for Indonesia to defend it. I don’t think a war is the best option, just put away to garbage can some sentence like “serumpun” or “saudara” so that makes Indonesia could act in straight without having to worry about anything. Really, Indonesia should move along and go ahead with full protection and full patents of cultures that has developed in Indonesia itself. I don’t think you can take or even steal something that has developed in a certain origin for hundreds of years and has it’s own characteristic by just using the word “serumpun” or ” it’s originated from melayu”. No way, man. It doesn’t sound logic.
    A culture is not like genetic heritance… if a great-great-great-great grandchildren with darker skin have a great-great-great-great grandfather who has a lighter skin they can be said related based on genetic traits.
    But you can’t do that to a culture… I think people in the world is smart enough to differetiate which one is Malaysia culture and which one is Indonesia culture. Indonesia culture is the more and more and far exotic ones and far more richer. Indonesia government should really take a protection action in a very top list.

    Like

  86. fresh! enjoy reading these MyASSians..

    Lagu Rasa Sayange Pernah Direkam Lokananta Solo Tahun 1962

    Laporan Wartawan Kompas Sonya Helen Sinombor

    SOLO, KOMPAS- Lagu “Rasa Sayange” yang dijadikan promosi lima puluh tahun Malaysia, ternyata pernah direkam di Perum Percetakan Negara Lokananta, Solo, Jawa Tengah pada tahun 1962. Lagu tersebut direkam bersama tujuh lagu lain dalam sebuah piringan hitam, untuk kepentingan siaran RRI se-Indonesia dan direkam khusus untuk souvenir Asian Games ke-4 di Jakarta tahun 1962.

    Bukti rekaman tersebut hingga kini masih tersimpan di Lokananta dan diperlihatkan Kepala Cabang Perum Percetakan Negara Lokananto Solo, Ruktiningsih kepada pers di Solo, Selasa (9/10).

    Piringan hitam hasil rekaman Lokananta berisi delapan lagu termasuk lagu “Rasa Sayange.” Judul lagu-lagu menggunakan ejaan lama. Di piringan hitam itu urutan lagu yang direkam adalah “Sorak 2X Bergembira”, ”Ina Ni Keke”, “Sengko-Sengko Dainang”, ”Rasa Sajange”, “Tjatja Maritja”, “Suwe Ora Djamu”, “Gelang Si Paku Gelang”, “Rajuan Pulau Kepala.”

    “Kami punya bukti otentik bahwa lagu Rasa Sayange pernah direkam Lokananta, yakni Kartu-Tape. Dengan kartu tersebut membuktikan lagu tersebut sudah direkam Lokananta,” ujar Ruktiningsih.

    Dalam Kartu-Tape nomor : SRL.253 dan SLR.254 ditulis lagu “Rasa Sayange” dan tujuh lagu lainnya direkam pada tanggal 15 Agustus 1962. Lagu ini dipersembahkan Orkes Lokanada pimpinan Supardi.

    “Rekaman asli lagu Rasa Sayange juga ada dalam pitareel yang dikirimkan RRI Jakarta ke Lokananta, pada saat lagu-lagu itu akan direkam dalam piringan hitam,” ujar Ruktiningsih yang memutar pitareel tersebut dan didengarkan para wartawan.

    Pitareel lagu “Rasa Sajange” yang berdurasi 2 menit 20 detik dinyanyikan dalam bentuk koor. Yang menarik, pada bagian awal syair lagu tersebut ada yang menyebutkan kata Tanah Ambon.

    Informasi bahwa Lokananta memiliki rekaman sudah disampaikan ke Departemen Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata. Atas informasi tersebut, Selasa petang, Kepala Bidang Informasi dan Publikasi, Pusat Informasi dan Humas Departemen Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata, Jordi Paliama mendatangi PT Lokananta dan meminta data-data yang terkait dengan lagu “Rasa Sayange.”

    Like

  87. Lagu Rasa Sayange Direkam di Lokananta

    SOLO, SELASA – Departemen Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata mengumpulkan bukti-bukti autentik tentang kepemilikan lagu Rasa Sayange yang saat ini digunakan Malaysia untuk promosi pariwisata di negara tersebut.

    Salah satu upaya yang dilakukan adalah dengan mendatangi perusahaan rekaman Lokananta di Solo yang masih menyimpan bukti-bukti tersebut, kata Kabid Informasi dan Publikasi Departemen Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata Jordi Paliama pada wartawan di Solo, Selasa.

    Salah satu bukti kuat bahwa lagu itu merupakan milik Indonesia adalah adanya piringan hitam yang berisi lagu-lagu tersebut yang pertama kali direkam di perusahaan rekaman Lokananta Solo. Bahkan Lokananta juga masih menyimpan pita real atau rekaman suara sebelum akhirnya dicetak menjadi piringan hitam yang direkam tahun 1962.

    “Kedatangan kita ke sini untuk mencari bukti autentik bahwa lagu itu miliki Indonesia. Hal ini juga menunjukkan sikap pemerintah terkait penggunaan lagu Rasa Sayange oleh Malaysia,” katanya.

    Lokananta sendiri saat ini masih menyimpan sebanyak tujuh piringan hitam berisi lagu Rasa Sayange. Lagu ini direkam dan diperbanyak hingga 100 piringan hitam dan dijadikan souvenir saat Asean Games IV.

    Menurut Jordi dengan adanya rekaman lagu yang pertama kali dibuat itu, maka hal ini menjadi bukti kuat bahwa Malaysia memang mencontek lagu Rasa Sayange. “Kami juga sudah melakukan kontak dengan publik Maluku dan pengarang lagu seniman Maluku untuk menbuktikan bahwa lagu itu dari Maluku. Dan menurut publik Maluku, lagu itu sudah dinyanyikan sejak tahun 20-an oleh warga Maluku,” jelasnya.

    Selain itu, pada tahun 1951, ternyata lagu itu juga sudah dinyanyikan di hadapan Presiden RI pertama, Soekarno, saat meresmikan pembangunan Gereja Maranata di Maluku. Dan pada tahun itu, Malaysia belum merdeka.

    Lebih lanjut menurut Jordi, meskipun pihaknya memiliki bukti autentik berupa rekaman asli, tetapi pihaknya mengakui bahwa bukti itu masih belum kuat, pasalnya lagu tersebut tidak diketahui siapa yang menciptanya dan hanya mencantumkan NN (no name) dalam nama pencipta.

    “Tetapi menurut James F Sundah, jika ada perselisihan di antara dua negara mengenai klaim sebuah lagu, maka negara yang menang adalah mereka yang memiliki rekaman lagu itu pertama kali dibuat. Kita patut bersyukur, sebab, di Lokananta masih menyimpan rekaman lagu ini yang dibuat tahun 1962,” paparnya.

    Selain mencari bukti di Lokananta, pihak Departemen Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata juga mengumpulkan bukti-bukti dari Minoru Endo Music Fundation di Jepang. Diharapkan di Minoru Endo ini, bisa ditemukan kumpulan lagu-lagu asli Indonesia yang diserahkan kepada mereka dari Indonesia untuk dibuat buku berisikan lagu-lagu dari berbagai negara.

    “Mungkin lagu itu masuk dalam daftar yang kita serahkan kepada mereka, dan karena keterbatasan kuota maka hanya ada 20 lagu saja yang dicantumkan sebagai lagu asli dari Indonesia tanpa mencantumkan lagu Rasa Sayange di dalamnya,” jelasnya.

    Sementara itu Kepala Cabang Perum Percetaan Negara Lokananta Solo, Ruktiningsih mengatakan, piringan hitam berisi lagu-lagu daerah termasuk Rasa Sayange direkam di Lokananta pada tanggal 15 Agustus 1962 dan diperbanyak hingga 100 keping piringan hitam. Hal ini dilakukan atas perintah dari Presiden Soekarno kepada Menteri Penerangan waktu itu, R Maladi. “Saat ini kami masih punya tujuh keping piringan hitam berisi lagu itu,” ujarnya. (Ant/wsn)

    “sorry cant be bothered to translate these into english, just read it. at least it’s not in malay languange, which sucks a lot more than Indonesian.”

    Like

  88. INDONESIA RAYA MERDEKA MERDEKA HIDUPLAH INDONESIA RAYA..

    myASSia, tanks atas informasi untuk pembuktian bahwa lagu RASA SAYANGE punya INDONESIA..

    Rest of posting is deleted because it contains unnecessary expletives (Unspun is no prude – expletives allowed in this if they are effective in expressing something but if it only reflects a limited ability to argue and express oneself then they are deleted), inflammatory language that does not advance any argument or add to the discussion.

    Like

  89. Dear Tried To be honest.

    Many thanks for your remarks. Perhaps clearer mind will help to solve whatever issues between the two countries.

    Rasa Sayang issue is actually an after effect saga. The real issue is “alleged” Indonesia’s unsatifaction with Malaysia. Unsatisfaction I notice is due to mainly sensational reporting by Indonesian media.

    Indonesian media is quick to report when a maid was badly treated by her employer. But they never report about hundreds of maid who ran away after looting lady of the house’s jewellery besides unbelievable phone bill. No Indonesia media ever willing to report about more than 20000 maids who ran away simply because they are seduced by again their Indonesian boyfriend.

    Of course, no Indonesian press is willing to carry stories about several young girls who are raped by Indonesian migrants, not to mentioned tribal clash between those from Madura and that of other parts of Indonesia.

    No Indonesia press is willing to highlight the issues on Indonesian agents who lied by giving false details on Indonesian maids, thus making these unemployable women rejected in their own country to look like angels . No Indonesian president cares to to look into plight of Indonesian maids who are forced to bribe Indonesian oficials at Indonesian port so that these maids can return to Malaysia after a holiday.

    Coupled with inability to accept ICj’s ruling that sovereignty of Pulau Sipadan and Ligitan is with Malaysia, together with upset over Malaysia’s refusal to kowtow to self appointed Big Brother( Indonesia), Rasa Sayang issue is actually not surprising.

    In the first place, Malaysians fail to understand what is the fuss over the song. Malaysia never claims it owns Rasa Sayang exclusively . It just brilliantly uses the song for promotion exrecise.

    Malaysia does not even know that Indonesia feels that it owns the song. The folk song is quite famous in this region. Malaysia feels that any country in this region can use it.

    The more appropriate reaction is for Indonesia to learn about successful Malaysia’s tourism promotion. No need to be shy about it. Being a good copycat is not degrading.

    As for readers who are fond to ridicule( whether Malaysians or Indonesians), my advice is to mind your mannerism. No need to mock . Just present your views minus insulting remarks .

    I am not saying that all Indonesian grouses with Malaysia are invalid. Some incidents with regards to inhuman treatments of Indonesian maids warrants Jakarta’s attention. But, do remember Malaysia also cooperates by taking actions vs cruel employers.

    As for Malaysia, perhaps the honourable PM should rethink the overly liberal immigration policies. It is disaster in the making. As for Malaysians, maybe it is time to do some soul searching. Overly dependence on foreigners can be fatal to the countries.

    Why not take a small first step. Teach our childrens to wash their own dishes, clothes. And for men, it is high time to help the wives with household chores. And for Putrajaya, why not encourages the opening of day care centreds by unemployed graduates.

    And my advice to the Honourable Labour Minister, do “turun padang” to understand that acutes shortages of workers is mainly due to unbelievably low salary. Not believing me. A multinational factory in Shah Alam offers salary of Rm18 per day for 9 to 5 job.

    Like

  90. Dear Shamshulannuar

    Thank you for your comment on my ranting above 🙂

    I do believe thank even if you don’t remember having a pet does not necessarily means you wont get mad if you see it start coming home to your neighbor house. Best way is to ask: why is it coming home to your house? And if you decided you want to take it away? who’s gonna stop you? its your pet.

    The press will be press anywhere on the planet. Our press also report terrible things about our very own country. Ten years ago its not possible, every information is controlled by the government. From what I read, the Malaysian press is still on the level of Indonesian press ten years ago. They will write what the government whats them to write. Thats why after reformasi, the indonesian government decided to disband Departemen Penerangan to ensure there’s no more censure or dictation from the government.

    I have a sister living in KL these past years. She sometimes told me that the Malaysian Newspaper do make a very big deal about Indonesians in Malaysia too. And the tone of the headlines tends to, well, degrading Indonesian in whole. If you read these kinds of news all the times, you will eventually look down to all Indonesia.

    Take my in laws experience for example, He was calling a number to inquiry about a used car. When he speak in english (fluently and with foreign accent, since he studied abroad), the one answered the phone was very polite and helpful. The minute he mention that he’s Indonesian, all the sugary politeness disappear. He didn’t buy the car of course, but it does left a strong impression dont you think?

    As for the Indonesians workers (especially domestic workers). We do have the same problems here. How do I try to minimize the risk of something like that happens to me? By treating them like a human being, as equal as I am. They work because they need the money, I need them to clean up the mess at home and take care of my child. We both a needing party here. So in my home, they will eat what I eat, I will not asked them to do things myself will not do, understand that she needs rest, encourage them to be social in my neighborhood, and also treat them like they is a part of my family. If you treat someone nicely, chances are they will return it.

    I have been changing maids every 6 months due to the tradition of changing household they are working in their hometown. Alhamdulillah none of them ever took anything from me that they werent given. I like to think of them as my assistant rather than my maid. And since I am a working mom, I prefer to give them treatment I received from my employer (weekend off, bonus, raise every year, etcetera)

    Indonesian worker are highly in demand in Malaysia because Bahasa Indonesia is very similar to Bahasa Melayu and a lot of Malaysian prefer another muslim working for them. If that demand and preference are reduced in Malaysia, Indonesian would eventually find other countries that appreciate Indonesian workers.

    Like

  91. Responding to the comment above, I read a comment once saying that back in the “Orde Lama” days when Suharto still has all the power in Indonesia, an agreement was made between him and the reigning Malaysian PM to export Indonesian workers to Malaysia in order to maintain the population of the malay decent so it won’t be outnumbered by other ethnicities there. Further study is needed though.
    However, now the number may have exceeded remarkably with all the illegal immigrants, but still, it all started with a deal made by both countries so cutting all Indonesian workers in malaysia is absolutely impossible. Cos on the other hand, Malaysia need Indonesians to save themselves.

    Like

  92. I really really think Indonesia government should protect the culture assets.

    Some government institutions already did, despite facing various limitations.

    Some time ago I visited a textile museum, with the intention of photographing their collections and making it part of some website designs. Therefore more people will find out the beauty of Indonesian crafts.
    I got the inspiration from some western website who incorporated their own crafts into their design. It looked really marvelous. Then I realized that our own textiles are also pretty good. So I went there.

    Let me tell you what I saw in the museum – beautiful songket from various places in Indonesia. Many are hundreds years old. I thought songket existed only in West Sumatera – turned out they existed almost **everywhere**. Have you heard about Balinese songket ? Me neither, yet it’s really beautiful.
    Some are simply breathtaking, the design are so elaborate and detailed, it doesn’t seem humanly possible.

    However to my dismay, the officials at the museum prohibited me from taking pictures of these old textiles there.
    Reason? Because they’ve had Malaysians patenting Indonesian batik designs. So they’re actively NOT publishing Indonesian crafts, to avoid this from happening again.

    Of course the officials should’ve known better, like if we published it first, then we got the rights to it automatically. But I think it’s also understandable, they’re trying to **avoid** the incident. I can appreciate that.

    Anyway, it still sucks.

    Like

  93. I like Metty’s quote:
    … Since Malaysia and Indonesia have so many similar culture, next time Malaysians claim something of their cultural heritage …, please make sure you add “Malaysian” or “Malaysian version” in front of it, for example “Malaysian batik” or “Malaysian version of batik” …

    I wonder why myASSia keeps insulting himself. I think if you want to insult someone, don’t use the same word as your own name. It’s like pointing to yourself. So are dloozer, mr.puki… (^_^) Just my oppinion.

    Dear Shiz, it’s a known secret!! Sheeeess… keep quite, ISA may visit you tonight. Good Luck :p unless if you are Indonesian, then I guess it’s alrite. Ha ha

    Just wondering, any “Malays” here tried to track your roots? Would unspun like to start a new topic on this? Where exactly your ancesters came from before we have Malaysia & Indonesia.
    Why are some Selangorians still call themselves Javanese, Johoreans call themselves Bugis even when their ancesters were here centuries ago. Does Jakarta people call themselves Jakartarians?

    I somehow noticed that Malaysian refer to themselves more on ethnic references as in Malay, Chinese, Indians instead of Malaysian unlike the Indonesian counter part.

    Dear Shamshul anuar, just wondering if you could tell me what is the earliest civilization or ruler in the Malay Peninsula. Not so good in history myself but a bit doubtful “Malays” were the first race to set up system of governance here .
    BTW, how do you define “Malays”.

    Dear kamarul, not sure if u r a PAS supporter but lets keep this dicussion out from Malaysia Politics. No government is perfect and I doub’t the oppositions could do a better job. But we still need them to keep the government at check. I like Kelantan, it’s a nice place but a little hard to maintain my living styles as in KL and not offending the Malay locals. HA HA HA. I missed the food there!! Also it’s scary for the state government to ban it’s local traditions just because it’s against Islamic teaching. I thought Islam is tolerant and blends to local cultures. Can advise?

    Ha ha ha ha, sorry for the mess, I started out just to comment on Metty’s quote.

    SELAMAT HARI RAYA

    Like

  94. my 2 cent opinion….

    actually… this is a lose-lose situation…. there will be no answer in this issue…. it just m’sia gov promoting this ‘rasa sayang’ song for its VMY… so wat d fuss….

    then maybe we shud create a fund…. whoever (i mean as a individual or country) used this ‘non patented watever things’ shud paid for it n go directly into d fund for d poverty….

    then no arguement,…. 🙂 ‘gow tim’

    Like

  95. geopolitis sebuah bangsa tidak hanya dari ras melayu, ras jawa, tetapi kalo kata soekarno,

    “Maka manakah yang dinamakan tanah tumpah-darah kita, tanah air kita? Menurut geopolitik, maka Indonesialah tanah air kita. Indonesia yang bulat, bukan Jawa saja, bukan Sumatera saja, atau Borneo saja, atau Selebes saja, atau Ambon saja, atau Maluku saja, tetapi segenap kepulauan uang ditunjuk oleh Allah s.w.t. menjadi suatu kesatuan antara dua benua dan dua samudera, itulah tanah air kita!”

    http://id.wikisource.org/wiki/Pidato_Soekarno:_Lahirnya_Pancasila

    jadi memang dalam bangsa yang diapit 2 benua dan 2 samudra ini terjadi banyak sharing of culture and life. tapi sayangnya terbentuk beberapa negara di antara 2 benua dan 2 samudra ini. kalo masih sama2 di majapahit kan gampang. kalo bukan karena pemisahan eic dan voc, most likely kita udah jadi 1 negara.

    tapi dalam hal ini, menurutku indonesia masih tetap memiliki semangat of the diverse archipelago (rasa toleransi antara diversitas) yang lebih mewakili keutuhan kepulauan-kepulauan asia tenggara ketimbang malaysia.

    pesan: at our conception, we should’ve been in the same nation.

    tapi mari jangan dilihat secara negatif (meributkan batas negara, toh majapahit sudah berlalu) tapi secara positif (mampu toleransi n tepo seliro)

    Like

  96. My dear Vic.Kyle.Ellanne, about your question about
    “…Just wondering, any “Malays” here tried to track your roots? Would unspun like to start a new topic on this? Where exactly your ancesters came from before we have Malaysia & Indonesia….”
    MC: To answer directly to that question, the answer is the Phillipines, at circa 4,000yrs ago) and before that, the Phillipinos came from Taiwan (circa 6,000yrs ago). The first Indonesians to migrate to the Peninsular Malaya was circa 3,000yrs ago.

    Why are some Selangorians still call themselves Javanese,
    MC: 75% of Peninsular Malays are Javanese Migrants. Mostly the migration occured less than 100yrs ago.

    Johoreans call themselves Bugis even when their ancesters were here centuries ago.
    MC: They do not like the word Melayu, as it means “fugitive” in Javanese. Also, Tanah Melayu means the “Land of the Fugitive”. Not a very pleasant name.

    Does Jakarta people call themselves Jakartarians?
    MC: No, they call themselves Javanese. Just like you dont see people calling themselves Petaling Jay-ites or Taipingians.

    Vic.Kyle.Ellanne, I have a speaking engagement at the Museum Negara this Thursday at 9:30 am to deliver a talk on “The Hindu Period of Malaysia”. Perhaps you would like to attend. I will be discussing many issues which you have brought up in this post, as well as earlier ones. You will need to contact me as I will have to bring you in as my special guest. This is a closed door event. And they usually will not allow strangers to waltz in uninvited. Bring along RM50 (not for the fees) but to buy the 2 DVD’s which are for sale at the Museum office which discuss the Malay slaves in Africa as well as the Vietnamese Champa tribe who migrated to Kelantan.
    I am also showing about a half hour segments of Discover Malaysia highlighting the Golden Hindu Era of 15 Centuries.

    Are you game? Anyone else want to attend?

    Like

  97. what a llooonnng thread…huh..penatnye nak baca manakan nak comment

    anyway to Shamsul…i think u dreamed alot lah, when did i say those words???? i never agreed with anybody who said those words. yeah mike u should withdraw that one…its too harsh for those hot steam

    Shamsul oooohhhh Shamsul, its not that i wanna ridicule u whatsoever, its just i wanna poke ur thinking so that u think right. not just angguk2 geleng2 wit what the govern said. now don’t say im tak kenang budi whatsoever. we all know its the NEP that those guys claimed to be a success story…its a subjective issue. some say its a success coz alot gained from it and some say its a failure coz it didnot even achieve what it aims. furthermore alot others should gain, we can achieve more if the govern listen but they don’t. im not arguing about those who gained but please think of those who do not.

    im a malay and of course if according to Shamsul, i gained alot and i should thank the govern. but logically when we think about poverty eradication program, the main aim is to eradicate poverty, isnt it Shamsul???? so the ppl that we should help by giving away money are those who are poor, isnt it Shamsul??? then why not we give help to the needy based on their income level???? Isnt it more logical and strategically wiser???? if we do like this, the possibility to achieve what we aimed is more???? better strategy, higher possibility and higher success rate, isnt it Shamsul????

    Now if u are such a thinking man, explain to me why not we eradicate poverty based on the ppl income rate, Shamsul??? I dare u….

    Like

  98. sorry wrong nickname haha

    what a llooonnng thread…huh..penatnye nak baca manakan nak comment

    anyway to Shamsul…i think u dreamed alot lah, when did i say those words???? i never agreed with anybody who said those words. yeah mike u should withdraw that one…its too harsh for those hot steam

    Shamsul oooohhhh Shamsul, its not that i wanna ridicule u whatsoever, its just i wanna poke ur thinking so that u think right. not just angguk2 geleng2 wit what the govern said. now don’t say im tak kenang budi whatsoever. we all know its the NEP that those guys claimed to be a success story…its a subjective issue. some say its a success coz alot gained from it and some say its a failure coz it didnot even achieve what it aims. furthermore alot others should gain, we can achieve more if the govern listen but they don’t. im not arguing about those who gained but please think of those who do not.

    im a malay and of course if according to Shamsul, i gained alot and i should thank the govern. but logically when we think about poverty eradication program, the main aim is to eradicate poverty, isnt it Shamsul???? so the ppl that we should help by giving away money are those who are poor, isnt it Shamsul??? then why not we give help to the needy based on their income level???? Isnt it more logical and strategically wiser???? if we do like this, the possibility to achieve what we aimed is more???? better strategy, higher possibility and higher success rate, isnt it Shamsul????

    Now if u are such a thinking man, explain to me why not we eradicate poverty based on the ppl income rate, Shamsul??? I dare u….

    Like

  99. Vic.Kyle.Ellanne:

    Dear kamarul, not sure if u r a PAS supporter but lets keep this dicussion out from Malaysia Politics. No government is perfect and I doub’t the oppositions could do a better job. But we still need them to keep the government at check. I like Kelantan, it’s a nice place but a little hard to maintain my living styles as in KL and not offending the Malay locals. HA HA HA. I missed the food there!! Also it’s scary for the state government to ban it’s local traditions just because it’s against Islamic teaching. I thought Islam is tolerant and blends to local cultures. Can advise?

    well, im not a PAS supporter as im still studying in a local U and the AUKU said well that im not. my commment was for Shamsul indeed on the NEP issue, sorry to have confused u on this Rasa Sayang hey thread. of course there would be no govern is perfect, but hey if u doubt the opposition will perform, why don’t we give them a chance in the next gen election??? on common ground, ive seen well in Kelantan and prev Terengganu, but um lets give them a chance for fed govern, then we can argue later hehe hooray…just give the chance and if they donot perform well, we just choose BN again…it is like serampang 2 mata, the next BN will not dare to not listen to the ppl again rite???

    yeah the food is good but u know ppl here really eat sugar alot, which gives a total headache for us meds student hehe…too many cases with the same story all over again. wana tell u my experience here lah…ive given a chance to go deep into the local community for 2 years doing medical research…the malays and nonmalays here is such a good example of an integrated society but um most of us donot know really. Malays go to chinese school, can speak mandarin. chinese can read jawi and eat budu. poltically here even u can get chinese tok penghulu in a malay kampong.

    yes Islam is tolerant and it can blends into local culture except if the culture in any way does not comply to Islamic shara'(laws). yeah there are few things being banned here in Kelantan including the wayang kulit thing but um the reality is it is not totally banned. the only thing they prohibited is the mixture of male and female(nonmuhrim) couple in dark places. they do have alot of complaints on this issue. the wayang kulit show still goes on in Kelantan if the environment is correct ie the place is not too dark. we oso have it here in HUSM. they even wanna to open up on the cinema issue…so we just wait them to open up ok…;-)

    Like

  100. owh GOD, some crap really makan my comments lah…why don’t they feed on others huh??? hehe pls help…these crap really lapar, i don’t know due to puasa onot heh

    Like

  101. Dear Kamarul, your double entry made this thread even longer! Ha ha ha!

    Talking about sugar, I was introduced to Curry + Sugar for my roti canai in Kelantan, also condensed milk with roti canai. To add to that, at least half inch thick of condensed milk for teh/milo/nescafe and half inch sugar for kosong. Love the sweetness, just like the people there, so much it “overwhelm” my heart, Haha!

    I’ve been in Kelantan for 3 years and one of my Chinese Poly-mate’s father was a tok penghulu in a kampung then. It’s simply facinating. The culture in Kelantan is most diversed and richest I dare say compared to other Malaysian states and co-exist nicely among it’s wide range of population.

    One thing I like to highlight about the harmonious people in Kelantan, they share the same dialect, all of them “kecek Kelate*” which makes them feel and live as a single society and understand each other despite the fact that everyone has different culture values and practices different religions.
    *chatting in Kelantanese*

    About the cinema, we had to stand attention when they played both the National & State anthems and watching the movie with the lights on was simply not entertaining. However, the locals must be envious when they see a bunch of us Chinese boys and girls sitting together; what they don’t know is how annoyed the couples in our group had to refrain themselves from cuddling. Ha ha!

    Now, back to my point! — What a wate of space :p —
    The Malay states & Indonesian used to compete Wau, Dikir Barat, Gasing and many other cultural events long long time ago. It is not surprising that many cultures had crossed borders and blended into each others tradition and thus the similiarities. I don’t think it is totally wrong to say that all these cultures now belong to the nusantara and therefore anyone in these regions could use and promotes it with no shame. However, it would be nice to state that which version it is using as Metty had suggested earlier. The world didn’t ask if Rasa Sayange is from Malaysia and when our Indonesian friends asked, the minister just stated a matter of fact but with very wrong choice of words. If you really want to find a fault in this, you should have seen the advertisements Singapore used to promote herself, almost every local flavours and traditions are labeled with the Merlion.

    Oh yes, Shamshul anuar my friend, I understand that you are trying to be analytical & moderate. Unfortunately, there are many facts that are less than accurate you stated, or at least not in the same point of views from many of non-Malays (note, not just non-Bumis). You may not agree but the government had used the Malaysness issues in a lot of it’s own Political agendas and gains and many so called Malay elites had actually abused it too. I must say that if the NEP had worked as it originally planned, majority of Malays would have came out from poverty and be the actual strong and ruling people. Unfortunately, it’s not and that’s why the non Malays are not happy. We’ve been marginalised for the benefits of a small group of people. For me, I would be tolerant enough if the plan had actually help all the Malays to be one of the elite people in the world. Afterall, we are Malaysians!!!

    My dear friend Michael Chick, will be in touch with you soon.

    Cheers

    Like

  102. to hell with the stupid rasa sayange Indon. No meaning at all, perang saja dengan Indon!!! Timur Leste pun bisa merdeka.

    @dolah: Hmmm. Not a very skillful way of arguing. Emotive and provocative language is not contributing to this discussion at all. Is there a point you want to make or you just want to rail at someone? If former, please rephrase. If latter, get a prescription for Prozac and refrain from listening to Kenny G music.

    Like

  103. Vic.Kyle.Ellanne, i dare to put double entry just becoz its aledy long haha, why don’t put more. well kelantan hmm nobody is perfect, at least its even better. even state govern punye poverty program oso is not for malays alone. bout cinema, i oso agree its not enjoyable watching wit lights on but um its better than none…just support their idea of cinema wit lightson or separate sex sits, later we can argue them to change..its no big deal right???

    i agree wit metty but hell no when somebody said malaysia is “stealing”. they didnt prove any that it was stealed…they don’t even prove that its their. if they can prove i oso can admit that the MTB is stealing hehe

    Shamsul, im waiting for ur response hehe. being analytical is not enough really, should think more. he is not being moderate lah, nobody support NEP if they are not UMNO supporter…can really see through the sleeve. NEP should go away by any means, we should have a better economy policy lah…

    dolah Kurdis, um i don’t know what to say…pity! pity!…well said and enough

    Like

  104. Malaysia Goblok, Maling!!!

    Apalagi Kamarul!

    Siape yg ga emosi ketika banyak orang Indonesia dilecehin, diperkosa sama Rela, dijarah kebudayaannya, diambil pulaunye, TITIT!!!!!!!!!!

    GOBLOK!!!!!!!!!!!

    GANyANG MAlaYSia

    @Otong: please see Unspun’s comments to dolah. You two have the same malaise and need the same treatment. Maybe we should lock you two in a room and force you to make love to each other. LOL

    Like

  105. hahaha great unspun…da otong lennon is another one…need something like that oso hehe

    anyway emosi??? at least malaysians donot go and burn an indonesian flag when they do crimes whatsoever…i think the protest tak aman by the indonesian is the most emotional of all…shouldnt go that way for a well civilized and matured society

    Like

  106. Well my malaysian fried said he never realized that indonesians appreciate product of culture so highly. For him this song is just another folk song from the archipelago.

    I explained to him that in Indonesia, ppl really put emphasize on the locality and originality of products of culture. Most indonesia will probably know that the song Bunga Jempa is from Aceh and Angin Mamiri from Makassar. We’ve been introduced this concept of locality since elementary school. Indonesia has so much products of culture/art from different ethnicity/tribe and to preserve them is by recognizing its origin. This also meant to to increase cultural sensitivity and lessen the possibility of the ethic/tribe conflict.

    We have this concept local culture enrich national culture. Still, we distinguish which one is local and which one has become national. Batik, Kebaya and Kopiah somehow has become national, yet we still recognize its origin.

    This emphasize on originality and localty can be seen in naming the food. We have Soto Banjar, Soto Madura, Soto (Coto) Makassar, Soto Betawi, Soto Bandung, etc. Of course anyone can cook this food and commercial it anywhere in indonesia but still they have to recognize where it comes from. It is not written law but is what we believe to be ethical. You just can’t make Soto Banjar, sell it in Ambon and then name it Soto Ambon. Indonesian in Banjarmasin will be furious. The same rule goes to Batik, wayang, and so on.

    Songs like Rayuan Pulau Kelapa, Tanah Airku, etc as we know has been regarded as national indonesian songs. While, Angin Mamiri, Rasa Sayange, Bunga Jeumpa as local indonesian (folk) songs.

    My malaysian friend said that malay Malaysian are used to mixing Nusantare culture and just regarded them as Malay which is from the archipelago. Our understanding of Malay/Melayu is different. To him most of the people in archipelago is Malay. To him Malay/Melayu is a race. While for us Malay/Melayu is a minority tribe in Sumatra which mostly in Riau. Its culture is just small part of the archipelago and to our common knowledge rasa sayange, batik and wayang is not originated from Melayu culture.

    For me, knowing that, Malay Malaysian are mostly come from indonesia, they have the same right as much as indonesians do in practising those products of culture. But, of course they must acknowledge where it comes from and its originality. if Malaysians reluctant to admit this shared heritage as Indonesian’s why dont just admit its local origin, like Maluku’s song for this rasa sayange.

    Chinese everywhere, for example, surely acknowledge barongsai as their motherland heritage. Why Malay Malaysian can’t do the same. We wonder that that it might due to the hardship that indonesians facing now that malay malaysian may feel reluctant to acknowledge itself as Indonesian descendant and now trying to detach and disassociate itself to Indonesia.

    Or is it perhaps because now Malaysia economically more advance than indonesia? or maybe because there are too many indonesian hard labour in malaysia ? I dont know, im just wondering. Not acknowleging the originality of songs or any kind product of culture for that matter, particulary personalizing it by commercial use relatively considered ignorance. ignorance equals arrogant. That’s the way indonesian see it, i suppose.

    Anyway, malaysian tourist/visitor in indonesia are hardly shown hostility or resentment towards them because they are malaysian. We may say Ganyang malaysia but i don’t think any malaysian will be hurt by the police or by anyone in indonesia. Some stupid indonesian may burn jalur gemilang in front malaysian embassy but i dont think any indonesian will think to actually hurt a malaysian in indonesia.

    I love malaysia when i visited it, but i prefer going to bangkok or singapore instead. Perhaps im too sensitive, but when i was in malaysia, i can feel resentment or changing of facial expression if i said that im indonesian to malaysian officials.

    I hope this mentality towards indonesians would change someday.

    Peace

    Like

  107. winterinoz said it all. I hope Malaysians read his (or her?) comment. For us Indonesians, it is important to note the origin of a cultural product.

    To Kamarul who keeps asking Indonesians to prove that Rasa Sayange as Indonesian song, read the comments from Singaporeexpats and MyAssia (although I don’t like the way he call your country in that insulting way). It seems you just don’t want to admit being wrong.
    BTW, about the maturity as a nation, let me tell you what I think (you may or may not agree). If you think Malaysian condition now (politically and socially) as a nation is civilized and mature, I can’t help to think of Indonesia during Soeharto era. I think that Malaysian situation now is just like Indonesia during that era.

    I got the impression from the comments of Malaysians in this blog that it seems your media has portraited us in such a way as very poor, Pancasila as failed principles (while many of you don’t even know what stated in Pancasila), and everything in Indonesia is bad and all Indonesians are low class workers. I understand your situation, it’s just like the media in Indonesia during Soeharto era who portraited everything abt Indonesia as good and other countries are bad. My suggestion is, please see the whole picture before making any comment, don’t just trust your (control-freak) government and media.

    Sometimes I found your comments become so funny, like Kersani who commented on the recent Bawang Merah Bawang Putih sinetron. Even small children in Indonesia will laugh at you. The legend has existed a long time ago and we also had a movie abt it (I think it was still black and white movie). Or comment from Shanghai who talk abt Happy Birthday song, hahahahaha you make my day, man. None of us in Indonesia claim it as Indonesian song. We definitely acknowledge it as foreign song.

    BTW, what winterinoz said is true that we Indonesians might expressed our disgust on certain things (or certain country) by holding a protest and burning flags, but we don’t go attacking or harrassing the people from that country. You know how many times we burned US or Australian flags? But we don’t harrassed the people of those countries in their daily life in Indonesia. We still respect them as human being, and that is what I heard is lost in the way many Malaysians treat Indonesians. I myself has the experienced being ignored and looked down by Malaysians just because I am Indonesian.

    Like

  108. my brain level is at par to ontong lennon mr puki (on Indonesian side) no hurt feeling to you. anyway tq very much for your advise. I think Italian should burn the American Flag,send a protest or bring it international court of justice for having Pizza Hut all over the world!The same thing like one of the Indonesian politician suggested that Rendang,Satay (Sate), Batik is really originally form Indonesian.

    And The Indian goverment should protest to Indonesia for having many aspects of Indonesia’s heritage – like its ever-present symbol of Garuda, the imposing statues of Ganesha or Bhima which stand outside buildings, or the majestic sculpture of horses pulling Arjuna’s chariot in the middle of Jakarta – belong to Hinduism and India?
    Just how would Indonesians feel if they were accused of “stealing” from India’s much richer cultural heritage?

    Am I getting smarter here…

    Like

  109. Yesterday, at the Bundaran HI, Jakarta, ppl burning flags of Indonesian Party: Golkar, PDIP, PKS etc. Eventhough I am somewhat not agree with this burning flags thing (including burning Malaysian flag) but I do respect their free spirit to express.

    Malaysia, on the other hand still experience this:

    Malaysia down in press freedom index by CIJ, 17 October 2007
    Source : CIJ / http://www.cijmalaysia.org/display_story.asp?id=546

    The Centre for Independent Journalism (CIJ) notes with concern Malaysia’s drastic drop in this year’s Press Freedom Index by Reporters Without Borders (RSF), in which the country now ranked at 124, a drop of 32 places from year 2006 where it occupied the 92nd spot. It is worrying to note that the decline has been precedented by an improvement in the 2006 index, in which Malaysia climbed up 21 notches from 2005.

    However, CIJ agrees with the RSF’s observation in its annual report about Malaysia, and our monitoring reveals a consistent trend in the following areas; the harassment of bloggers through police detention, questioning, defamation suit, as well as warning by the country’s top leadership.
    constant interference by the Executive in editorial decisions, now in the form of official letters to editors from the Ministry of Internal Security and other verbal “advice”

    limiting certain topics, deemed sensitive to the administration, such as race and religion, corruption in the higher echelons, and the secular/Islamic state debate from public discussions through government directives to the media and the public.
    The Index by RSF affirms our position that the administration of Abdullah Ahmad Badawi still has a long way to go to realizing its pledge for more openness and transparency. We recommend the following actions be taken immediately to arrest the declining levels of press freedom in the country; set up a parliamentary select committee on media freedom with a view, among others, towards repealing the Printing Presses and the Publications Act 1984, stop Executive interference in editorial decisions
    stop using national security laws, such as the Sedition Act, Internal Security Act and Official Secrets Act, which are widely criticized for being extremely broad-worded, against bloggers.

    Issued by
    Gayathry Venkiteswaran
    Executive Director
    For more inquiries, please call 03-40230772.

    (Unspun, sorry for the OOT, can’t help it, you may delete this if you wish)

    Like

  110. tiara:
    the all-knowing princess, of course i don’t know much about indonesia becoz i never been there but thats not gonna keep me from commenting. its uguys to tell us malaysian everything that u need us to know…the info from uguys is vital as uguys are the indonesian, we r not. well, y i say ive da right to comment is that based on what i know, the medias (controlled onot, both i read lah), what happened in indon, how uguys solve problem and make decision and lastly the most glaring thing is how indons in malaysia even in my hometown

    im asking a just Q b4, if theres anybody could say that what the indon copyright agency chief said was wrong (he said that indon cant prove that song is indonesian) but hell ive been waiting until now NONE do so. what those two guys were saying(as stated by u) is just a proof gathering process by ur department, allegedly piring hitam etc…but can they say the song belongs to Indon????? NO…i don’t see any such statement. harlo ive said aledy if its proven to belongs to Indon, i would definitely say that the MTB is wrong

    now letme tell u about this flag-burning habit of indons…what would u feel if ur national flag is burned??? it seems that the anger is directed to the whole nation, the ppl, the opposition (whos actually hates the govern) lah not only the govern…THINK lah. there are malaysian who sympathies wit those indons being mistreated. BUT when u burn the flag, the scenario changed totally…they started rethink. politically say, if the opposition wana bring this matter to the parliment and blame the govern for giving to much power to authorities…i think they just won’t becoz the anti-indonesia sentiment among malaysian uguys created when u burn the flag!!! the only ppl that can change malaysian govern policy is malaysian ppl, not indons ppl and surely i say by burning our flag, uguys are making our job harder lah…THINK lah

    indon workers in malaysia oso did crimes etc and i wouldnt say all indons are bad, thats why we don’t simply go and protest and burn indonesian flag. everybody can do crime even malaysian, so we must not blame the nation simply becoz its not the nation’s policy lah. burning flag can only be accepted if its the nation’s policy like US or Israel lah. some RELA ppl beat and mistreat indons, police beat ur coach etc is not a nation’s policy of mistreating indons, its simply too much power given to authorities!!! now i give u example of policy like the Nazis in Germany, their jewish cleansing activity was a nation’s policy.

    well based on ur description on suharto, i don’t think malaysia now is like that…brunei is good, china is good, iran is good and alot others. malaysian govern oso not all have perfect policies. i oso don’t really trust my govern, i do read the mainstream media but the nonmainstream anti-govern media oso i read. the major policies of the malaysian govern oso even majority of malaysian disagree lah

    u go read my post above, how it did not even fulfill the definition of stealing, others malaysian song being copied by indons… and oso Michael chick’s comment on how a folklore song CANNOT be claimed to belong to a nation while the heritage is being shared by other nations

    indons don’t harass other ppl??? come on what is this statement its like u all maksum, never do sins!! i don’t need to go to Indon to see indons harass others, even i can see at my hometown lah but hey i don’t go and blame all indons…burn indon flag and so on. im sad that u had the experienced being ignored and looked down by malaysian but hey u shouldnot think that all malaysian are like that. i oso had experienced being ignored and looked down by ppl from other nations even indon in malaysia…and i don’t seemed to have an opinion like that

    wanna me to tell ya the story??? it happened a week b4 raya during my orthopedics end-posting exam. while im clerking my exam-patient, got an indon doc trying to kacau me and sibuk asking and testing the patient at the same time. dahla i just got half an hour, later have to present to specialist but i still give him way just becoz i respect him, i don’t care he respect me onot and oso hes the postgraduate and i only undergraduate ma…i don’t simply blame all indons and go burn indon flag…got the point???

    and of course ur the ALL-KNOWING princess, and i know NOTHING lah but hell sure that im doing the THINKING more hehe…janganla terasa, just making my point…hehe 😉

    Like

  111. my brain level is at par to ontong lennon mr puki (on Indonesian side) no hurt feeling to you. anyway tq very much for your advise. I think Italian should burn the American Flag,send a protest or bring it international court of justice for having Pizza Hut all over the world!The same thing like one of the Indonesian politician suggested that Rendang,Satay (Sate), Batik is really originally form Indonesian.

    Triedtobehonest: Did we say no Malaysian can’t sell rendang, serundeng, batik or satay in Malaysia? No, we did not say it. And I don’t think Italian would mind having Pizza Hut in America because it has popularized Pizza to the whole world but still recognized as the Italian food. Or you just never realized it and always think it was from America all along?

    And The Indian goverment should protest to Indonesia for having many aspects of Indonesia’s heritage – like its ever-present symbol of Garuda, the imposing statues of Ganesha or Bhima which stand outside buildings, or the majestic sculpture of horses pulling Arjuna’s chariot in the middle of Jakarta – belong to Hinduism and India?from India’s much richer cultural heritage? Just how would Indonesians feel if they were accused of “stealing”

    Triedtobehonest: If you would just read the history book in
    Indonesia, you would find out that we never denied the Indian influence in the history of Indonesia. Mind you, they bought us out of the pre-historic age by introduce written language to us.

    Am I getting smarter here…

    triedtobehonest: i don’t think you’re getting smatter. Getting emotional and irational? yes

    Like

  112. hehe whos comment above this??? why so confused one??? ur nickname and ur comments donot match lah man…r u dolah kurdis???

    Like

  113. “BTW, what winterinoz said is true that we Indonesians might expressed our disgust on certain things (or certain country) by holding a protest and burning flags, but we don’t go attacking or harrassing the people from that country. You know how many times we burned US or Australian flags? But we don’t harrassed the people of those countries in their daily life in Indonesia. We still respect them as human being, and that is what I heard is lost in the way many Malaysians treat Indonesians. I myself has the experienced being ignored and looked down by Malaysians just because I am Indonesia”

    My dear! you are so smart by doing your generalization all Malaysian now at this moment harrasing and attacking Indonesian. Nothing much to do.

    Indonesian (most) didn’t know that, to Malaysian “a Malay is a political rather than ethnic definition – a person who practises the customs and culture of the Malays, speaks the language and is a Muslim.”
    So, based on ethnic considerations, the majority of Malaysians are in essence Javanese, Bugis, Banjarese, Acehnese, Minangkabaus, Bataks, Makarese, Malukus, Sunda, Bawean, in addition to the Malays from the Riau region.
    The roots of these diverse groups are so deep that the languages, dialects and patois are still spoken in enclaves.

    And for god sake to certain people “over patrioticsim” understand that the rebublic of Indonesia exist before the Javanese,Bugis,Acehnese,Minangkabaus etc so those tribes who minggle around the maritime is Indonesian since the existance of Adam and Eve. May perhaps Adam and Eve were born some where in Wonogiri or Mojokerto.

    Freedom of media ? inclusively free to lie, marketting strategies that 2 million of Indonesian workers in Malaysia been harrased and not been given food to eat at all, all Malaysian including me (dolah kurdis) experienced of knocking down at least one of Indonesian head in Malaysia. And further more my face will automatically change when he or she mentioned oh I am from Indonesia. All Malaysians are arrogant. People will buy those kind of news paper and register as a volunteer to “Ganyang Malaysia” campaign. What a pity.

    Again mr Unspun forgive me due to my low iq expression.

    Like

  114. i don’t think you’re getting smatter. Getting emotional and irational? yes
    Why not! I wanted to be like my Indonesian brothers and sisters like ontong lennon, mr puki. I admired them so much for being patrioticism. I am a straight man. Making love to ontong Lennon or mr puki is beyond my sexual desire. Perhaps mr Unspun would like to do so? LOL…
    triedtobehonest, Go through Indonesian history book?
    FYI I ve gone through your UUD45,Penataran P4 pola 100 Jam, Kewiraan, Ilmu Sosial Dasar,PMKI. All those Indonesia doctrine the bottom line is Indonesia never recognize Malacca Strait as “Selat Melaka” it is “Selat Sumatra” under NKRI. Need I say more triedtobehonest?

    Like

  115. @dolah kurdis
    yes yes…

    It just proofed my point about you.

    @everyone who’s reading this thread
    All who agree with me say I……

    Like

  116. hehe pretty had give da long ccj report…i couldnt agree more…malaysia govern need to do more on this. BTW arent freedom of expression should be accompanied wit eastern values, respect to others, ethics???

    my opinion too much democracy wit no values is as bad as communism oso lah…but should not have rules to ban those ppl from protesting, its their right… but um really can see whether they matured and civilized enough…protest aman is good, protest tak aman is as bad as those police crackdowns

    somehow pretty…u havent answered my Qs on definition of certain words that i requested u clarify…where go all that??? since u made an accusation clearly enough against me…u should substantiate oso!!! i cornering u is another thing which im sure a crap

    Like

  117. Now, now, there is no such thing as Selat Sumatra, it will always be Selat Melaka even for us Indonesian. Not to worry though, we have Selat Sunda, Laut Jawa, Laut Sulawesi, etc. etc…and yes, we once had the ambition to rename Indian Ocean to Indonesian Ocean, but I don’t think it really caught up with general Indonesian public.

    Like

  118. “we once had the ambition to rename Indian Ocean to Indonesian Ocean,”

    tq kemsey the most honest statement I ever heard form Indonesian. No I am not worry. My point is patrioticism and nationalicism is good. But referring to jakarta Post, Rebuplica, SIB, suara pembaharuan is too much.

    Like

  119. To Kamarul: just read my reply at the beyonce thread.

    To Kamarul, you keep on using those word: Indon – indon – indon … do you know that your Minister plan to ban those indon calling because its degrade the true meaning? (an indonesian). However,I also do not agree about myassia calling or truly maling asia, its not the point of the discussion. Malaysia is a good nation, a good country that deserve Indonesians (not Indon) respect. If you want respect from ppl, you should respect others first.

    To: Kamarul,
    I am quoting bobshowa (myassia):

    Lagu Rasa Sayange Direkam di Lokananta
    Salah satu bukti kuat bahwa lagu itu merupakan milik Indonesia adalah adanya piringan hitam yang berisi lagu-lagu tersebut yang pertama kali direkam di perusahaan rekaman Lokananta Solo. Lokananta juga masih menyimpan pita real atau rekaman suara sebelum akhirnya dicetak menjadi piringan hitam yang direkam tahun 1962.

    Is there any proove that Malaysia already record this Rasa Sayange prior to 1962 ? u always asked Indonesian (not Indon) to proove that Rasa Sayange belongs to nusantara Indonesia. What if you on the other hand, proove that this song originally come from Malaysia ? just because you heard it as a lullaby when you were a baby? oh please …

    Like

  120. He he Pretty…
    please Veera Pandiyan deputy Editor New media Indonesia.
    Rasa Sayang record prior to 1962?
    Now I give you 1959 lol…..

    “If it is really a case of Malaysia stealing a part of Indonesia’s heritage, then Bollywood has been there and done that – 48 years ago.
    Legendary Hindi playback singers Mohd Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar recorded Rasa Sayang in a 1959 movie shot in Singapore which starred Shammi Kapoor, with Maria Menado (the acclaimed Indonesian actress who eventually took up Malaysian citizenship) as a guest star.
    The chorus in the Hindi lyrics go like this: Rasa sayang re, Rasa sayang sayang re, Hey, pyar ka hee nam? (Hey, is this called love?), Rasa sayang sayang re.”
    Ha ha ha ha kamarul bro! please stop using the word [In*%@] even tough you have no intention to insult anybody….

    Like

  121. huh? going to ban? not yet right? yeah can i know why cant i use indon word? does it has any bad meaning or anything like it? just wondering why uguys seemed to perceived the word…used by many malaysian as degrading

    although i dont understand those indon words, im putting it in malay: bukti kukuh bahawa lagu ini milik indonesia ialah piring hitam yang direkod di Lokananta Solo pada tahun 1962, right? now, the first accusation was MTB was stealing the song from indonesia, becoz uguys claimed the song belongs to indonesia, right? indon copyright chief guy said “Bagaimana nak saman Malaysia jika tidak ada siapa yang tahu siapa pencipta lagu itu? Jadi biarlah Malaysia menggunakan lagu itu sebagai lagu tema pelancongan mereka”

    as a conclusion, finding the original creator of that song is the sole proof that the song is indonesian…piring hitam cannot disqualified the song as a folksong…when u cannot disqualified the song as a folksong, so u cannot claimed that it is indonesian lah…look at mike’s comment on Bernie Convention above lah…i copy it here so that u read dey…
    “However, with the creator of the Rasa Sayang being unknown, and if both countries claim that they have been singing it for centuries simply means that the Rasa Sayang Song has relegated to what is termed as a folk song. For the same reason that you cannot trace the original creators/ songwriters of folk songs, the original writers cannot be identified. As such, one is free to rewrite and rerecord these type songs as they see fit”

    why should im the one to proof the song belongs to malaysia, nobody claimed that…so its totally crap!!! to proof that it belongs to nusantara is simply using the proof that indonesia cannot claim the song belongs to them lah

    u just dont get it huh pretty??? think more lah rather than being emotional!!! hehe im not cornering u watsoever

    Like

  122. @dolah kurdis: hey i really can stop using that word if they tell me that it has bad meaning really…and then after they ban the word

    but hey man nice, 1959??? got to see whats their response hehe

    Like

  123. malaysia org malas!! pemaling!! anjing tuh bakar aja!! muka ancur!!! tai lah malaytai tuh!! kita panggil aja sekarang malaysia jd malaytai!!! malaytai~~~!!!!!!!!!!!

    Unspun: Er, is this is the best you can do by way of argument disturbia? Lots of spleen but not a single point made. Please down two prozac pills and if pain persists call your doctor. Either muster some arguments and come back to this blog or stand by the roadside shouting at passers-by.

    Like

  124. Unspun… Great Moderator you are! keep neutral always, ok!?

    Kamarul…. Dari awal kamu cabar semua kami orang Indonesia untuk buktikan lagu Rasa sayang itu asli dari Maluku Indonesia.

    Kini setelah terbukti. Kamu bicara melenceng kemana-mana, tersesat tak berarah.

    Apa tak malu?

    Like

  125. well, i really dont get it uguys…if uguys want me to just accept what uguys said then theres no need to argue lah, no need to substantiate anything…no need to have this discussion in the blog really…uguys can just force all the malaysians to accept whatever uguys said without arguing…remember forcing ur view on another and not arguing is NOT a good basis in a discussion

    now, dont say im forcing my view on uguys…all ive been doing is arguing…and sad to say i dont see any of uguys who can just argue without making any emotional statement…which i really malas nak layan…so childish (now i really thought most of u are childish)

    @Indonesia Asli: kini telah terbukti??? what terbukti…dont u even think??? just accept those piring hitam case??? dont uguys even think that hey in some way does it really prove that the song belongs to u??? Simply say according to ur copyright chief and the Bernie Convention, the song is really well stated DOES NOT belongs to indonesia, ok??? thats my view unless somebody argue with me disqualifying those 2 points…till then uguys can continue ur childish emotional crap becoz im well getting used to it…sometimes really enjoyed it…hehe 😉

    Like

  126. Dear Vic. Kyle.

    Many thanks for your response and sorry for the late reply. Actually, who came first to then Malaya thousand of years ago is not a major issue to Malays .

    I was replying to one remarks by Michael that questioned the well accepted fact of old Malay states. My point is very simple. Malays were not the first people to settle in this country but they were the first to set up the system of governance , recognised by the whole world.

    Why then, Malaysia was previously known as Malay states. Because the majority of them is Malay and the rulers are Malays. That simple. The act of recognition is reflected through treaties with Malay rulers. As i said earlier, even the agrrement of independence is actually a treaty signed by Malay Rulers and London to sever whatever soverieignty Queen Elizabeth 11 has over Malay states .

    I fail to understand why now there is preoccupation to question the fact recognised by the world.

    As for my reply to Kamarul, I merely reminded him of his mannerism. That outright insult to his own race may make him popular but nobody respects such a person. There is no need to insult your own race in order to reply or state a point. Quoting ‘dirt ass poor” in order to depict a Malay is simply a manifastation of what Malays called “kurang ajar”. En Kamarul may not realize that there are sizable Malays in middle class section. They may not be multi millionaire but certainly not “dirt ass poor”. Criticize but spare the insult.

    And I never deny existence of poverty in Malaysia just like anybody cannot deny existence of poverty in other countries, some known as “land of milk and honey”. But in honesty, while Malaysia’s govt initiative may not be perfect, but it does deliver. Poverty eradication is successful in Malaysia although there are always rooms for improvement.

    Certainly, it is unfair to deny the govt’s effort to reduce poverty. Accepting the reality that this govt delivers must not be construed as being “naive” into believing Kuala Lumpur’s propaganda. Credit must be given when it is due although you may not like the govt.

    Like

  127. dolah Kurdis : “All those Indonesia doctrine the bottom line is Indonesia never recognize Malacca Strait as “Selat Melaka” it is “Selat Sumatra” under NKRI. Need I say more triedtobehonest?”

    @dolah Kurdis : can you show us the map? i never saw any map in indonesia or any map pulished by indonesian publisher shows “selat sumatra” instead of “selat malaka”. As usual malaysian always claimed but cannot prove any fact. Please do not make generalization that all people arround the world have malay character (who really like to claim anything). O.. ya, may be this’s a good news for malaysian that sone malaysian anthroplog claimed that Adam & Eva was Malay… therefore all races in the world are malays too and malaysia has right to claim all cultures in the world as Malay heritages.

    Like

  128. Dear tried to Be Honest.

    Many thanks for the reply. Yes. We must treats other people with respects eventhough there are maids. I have been employing the same maid for the past 6 years.

    But in sincerity, we all know that not all maids are angels. I am sure you are aware how some maids are actuallyt testing the patience to the limit. And of course, you have heard about how maids ran away after emptying lady of the houses jewellery.

    My point is very simple. The procedure must be tightened. And Malaysians simply do not understand why Jakarta is reluctant to act against Indonesian agents who purposely supplying under quslified maids to Malaysia. If they are serious in protecting their citizens, why stll no actions against dishonest agents (calo as called in Indonesia) who ceated the problem in the first place.

    Like

  129. hehe shamsul oh shamsul…its been the 2nd time uve been accusing the wrong person here man…i never said those words lah…go and read above i never said those words…its michael chick who said those words lah

    dahlah u wrongly accused me then called me kurang ajar somemore…i demand u withraw ur accusation quickly…i never said those words…im a malay and i dont simply go and degrade my own ppl lah…cheer up man u accused the wrong person here

    Like

  130. ^^^ Typical of Malaysians

    Why? Always refuse to admit the truth that all of us here have been presenting in tens of posting. Congratulations on showing us all how a native Malaysian brain works like

    ( no wonder, there are no Malay Bumiputera’s that have good grades in Cambridge exams).

    Like

  131. @doeljengki: wakaka whats wrong wit this guy really??? hehe he must be having too many good grades in Cambridge exam though…and im sure he did alot of research on whos really scored in those exams hehe…what a joke…i would called u a very respected Cambridge enthusiast…hehe

    BTW…whats with “Malay Bumiputra’s”??? got malay nonbumiputra meh??? i dont really get and understand whats the point really…ha now i get it…he must have got this idea when scoring those Cambridge exams with good grades…haha..that really tickles me…what a joke

    Like

  132. ^^^ am I correct or what 🙂 .. it’s a such malaysian typical comments

    kindly please check this article:

    —–
    Nine M’sian students are World’s Best
    Giam Say Khoon

    PETALING JAYA (Oct 18, 2007): Nine students have made the country proud by being the world’s top scorers of eight subjects in the Cambridge A-Level examinations in June.

    The eight subjects are: further mathematics, biology, chemistry, physics, art and design, French and mathematics.

    Among them, Joshua Tan Hoong Yu from Taylor’s University College had the highest scores in biology, chemistry, physics and mathematics.

    Other top scorers were Lim Tim Weng (further mathematics), Bradley Ben (geography), Jean Kee Hooi (art and design), Ang Ju Li (mathematics), Lau Lih Kai (mathematics), Vincent Lai Voon Chin (mathematics) and Yeoh Su-Ann (mathematics).

    —- deleted —-

    see, there are non-malay ethnics (i mean all the top scorer are chinese, if you are too dumb to understand), no wonder malay bumiputera always claim other cultures as theirs, not only lack of creativity but also the bellow average achievements on science.. pity.

    if you spent your time to study indonesian students achievements in International Physics Olympiad, you’ll see many bumiputera especially from outside Java (Bali, Toraja, Papua, etc) were in the list as gold/silver/bronze medallist.

    again, congratulations on showing us all how a native Malaysian brain works like.

    Like

  133. @Shamshul Anuar

    Yes, I know what you mean when you said not all maids are angel. In fact, my moms maid from the previous semester was so baaaad in attitude and steal some bags and clothes when she returned to her hometown for good.

    I took risk management class once, in it, I know there are several ways how people manage their risk. Among them are risk prevention, risk retention, and risk avoidance. If you choose risk prevention, you should do your research before hiring a maid. maybe you should consider insuring your valuables. Risk retention is when you know the risk, but you took it anyway. Its like going to work everyday and passing a really bad neighbourhood that you heard so many people are being mug there. Since the safer way would take longer and you want to work, you took it anyway. And if you choone isk avoidance, then don’t take any maid at all. No maid means no hassle. But of course, you have to work hard cleaning your mess at home and you have to have other caregiver alternatives for your children.

    I agree with you, the Indonesian government is not doing enough to improve the quality of indonesian workers. Therefore, they are not getting the same payment and treatment as other nation workers in Malaysia. They should play hard to get a little bit like the Indian and Phillipines Government. It gets their workers the respect, payment, and treatment they deserve.

    The Calo is worse, they often lied to the people in rural area to let them take their underage children by promising good money is waiting in Malaysia. If you are underage, of course you have to break the rule in order to get in to malaysia, legally or not. If the did made it working in Malaysia decently, its a miracle. A lot were tricked into prostitution (imagine, underage girls…).

    But…all this would come to the ever lasting question: Egg or Chicken, Which come first??? We have the supply, but Malaysia have the demand. Since malaysia is the nearest and have the advantage of similar bahasa melayu, your country would be their first destination. And A lot of malaysia do preffer Indonesian workers because of the language similarity.

    Like

  134. to the honourable doeljengki
    please read
    UUD45 1988 Departemen Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan Indoneisa:Jakarta: P&K
    Zainul Pelly (1987) Kewiraan. Medan. Penerbit Fakultas Hukum.

    Like

  135. Dear my brother doeljengki
    the “claim”word been use by Indonesian and Malaysian government regarding Sipadan and Ligitan. The WORSE thing happens is Malaysia won the trial at the Dan Haag. Your side also do claiming, come on man! be rational. Indonesia’s claim defeated by Malaysia’s claim.
    I personally like to say “Indonesia please take that two little tiny Island and develope it” so I as Malaysian won’t get any bad names such as “arrogant”, “Malingsia”, “maling”, what ever it is. This is my humble opinion.

    Like

  136. Just to share the real news about how “bad” we Malaysian is. Especially the Malays huh : (
    Bad News is a good news
    Secebis kisah manis Katijah (TKW Malaysia yang beruntung)
    From Sri Andalas Yogja

    Benarkah semua tenaga kerja Indonesia di Malaysia mengalami nasib teruk atau berbuat jinayah?
    Saya bukan jenis orang yang suka melebih-lebihkan. Itu terlalu bombastis.
    Menurut saya, meskipun seseorang mempunyai 90% sifat buruk, tapi kan masih ada sisa 10% sifat baiknya. Tak Ada Gading Yang Tak Retak bukan?
    Saat mencerna kabar berita di Koran, teve atau omongan orang pun saya mencoba untuk berhusnudzan (prasangka baik).

    Sebanyak apa jua tenaga kerja yang membuat jinayah (kriminal) di Malaysia, pasti jauh lebih banyak tenaga kerja yang tak macam-macam. Bertungkus lumus mencahari sesuap nasi untuk keluarga di kampung.
    Sebaliknya…
    Sebanyak apa jua tenaga kerja wanita (amah) yang didera majikannya di Malaysia, pasti banyak juga yang mendapatkan majikan yang baik hati, amanah dan tidak kejam.
    Bad News is Good News…ini semboyan wartawan.
    Jadi perkara sepele dibesar-besarkan, yang majority macam tak nampak.
    Karena laku di jual??? itu pasti!
    Cerita berikut adalah suatu kisah manis dan nyata terjadi.
    Panggil saja dia Katijah. Usianya baru 27 tahun. Tetapi seperti umumnya perempuan desa, ia kawin muda. Alhasil, Katijah telah punya 2 anak: si sulung 7 tahun dan adiknya 5 tahun.
    Katijah adalah penduduk kampung terpencil di daerah Purworejo, Jawa Tengah. Orang miskin dari daerah miskin dan terbelakang. Merantau ke kota adalah pilihan tunggal.

    Kebetulan saya memerlukan pembantu di rumah (Bekasi/Jabar), maka saya hubungi kakak di Jogya buat mencarikan pembantu rumah tangga yang mau tinggal di sini dengan gaji sekian sekian.

    2 pekan lewat, kakak saya tiba di Jakarta dengan membawa seorang wanita. “Nami kulo Katijah, pak” kata wanita itu. (Nama saya Katijah…)
    Semua biasa saja. Dia tak banyak cerita. Sampai suatu hari saat istri saya akan berangkat mengajar (guru taman kanak-kanak), dengan agak terkejut ia bertanya :
    “Ibu pernah ke Malaysia ya?”
    Istri saya agak bingung, menjawab “Enggak kok, memangnya kenapa?”
    “Itu…ibu memakai (baju) kurung Malaysia, saya kira ibu beli saat di Malaysia” katanya…
    “Ooh..ini” istri saya melanjutkan “Ini jahitan mama (ibunya) kok, modelnya saja gaya Padang atau Malaysia” menerangkan.

    Memang sejak saya menikahinya, tujuh tahun lepas, saya mulai memperkenalkan baju kurung/kebaya melayu gaya padang atau Malaysia ini ke istri saya.
    Sekarang, hampir semua bajunya adalah kurung. Tetapi ia tidak menyukai warna-warna yang biasa di pilih wanita Malaysia. “Terlalu cerah…terlalu ramai warnanya” pendapatnya. Karena Syariat lebih menganjurkan warna-warna tenang/gelap.
    Tak apalah…selera orang bias aja beda-beda kan?
    Jadi ia menggabungkan dengan Batik Jawa (yang cenderung gelap).
    Tetap cantik kok. (hehehe…)
    Kembali ke Katijah.
    Ia lalu bercerita bahwa 6 bulan lepas baru saja kembali dari Malaysia. Menjadi amah/pembantu rumah tangga di Kota Baru, Kelantan.
    Sungguh beruntung, Katijah bekerja pada seorang Melayu. Sehingga ia tidak harus mengalami nasib bak Nirmala dan Ceriyati.
    4 tahun penuh ia bekerja disitu.

    “Majikan saya nih orang kayu bu di Kota Baru, suaminya adalah pemain sepakbola terkenal di Malaysia” (Ada yang tahu…siapa dia? She forgets his name…)
    Jadi…saya hampir tak pernah bertemu majikan laki, karena ia selalu bertanding.”

    “Saya pun beruntung karena sering diajak keliling Malaysia oleh majikan wanita saya itu, ke pelbagai kota dan tempat pelancongan. Beliau juga gemar berbelanja, dan….nonton konser artis2 Indonesia. Saya diajak nonton konsert Sheila On 7, Kris Dayanti, Peterpan…..”

    “Hampir semua….ehm…kebanyakan wanita di Malaysia, terutama di Kelantan memakai kurung bu… dan majikan saya ini hobby-nya jahitin baju kurung. Kalau ditotal –saat pulang kemarin- saya membawa 30 setel kurung pemberiannya. Sebahagian besar udah saya bagi di kampung buat sanak-saudara”

    “Saya sungguh senang kerja sama beliau, Cuma makanan saja yang agak bosan. Tiap hari masakan kari belaka. Walau daging dan ikan tapi kalo dibikin kari terus lama-lama kan bosan juga. Jadi saya izin beliau untuk memasak sendiri masakan Jawa. Saya bikin pecel, lodeh, sayur asem, bacem tempe dan tahu. Yang manis-manis pokoknya….Eeeh…rupanya beliau suka juga. Kata beliau, masakan Kelantan pada dasarnya juga manis, hampir seperti masakan Jawa Tengah. Akhirnya, setiap masak kami selang-seling, masakan melayu dan jawa.”

    “Empat tahun penuh saya bekerja pada beliau, gaji saya terbayar penuh. Saya bebas beribadah, menonton teve. Segala hal. Tetapi, rasa rindu terhadap anak-anak saya lebih hebat. Maka saya putuskan untuk kembali dulu ke kampung, mengobati rasa rindu. Beliau sangat sedih. Tetapi ia tak boleh menahan saya. Berulang kali ia menawarkan kenaikan gaji tapi wajah si cilik lebih menarik dari uang berapa ribu ringgit pun. Majikan saya akhirnya melepas saya dengan berkali-kali berpesan : Jika dah puas, engkau harus balik lagi kerja di rumah ibu, di Kota Baru.”

    Akhirnya saya kembali ke kampung.
    Kini, 6 bulan sudah, rindu saya telah terobati… tetapi rasanya Kota Baru terlalu jauh untuk saya datangi lagi. Saya tidak sanggup lagi.

    Demikianlah…
    Sungguh beruntung Katijah.
    Kisahnya indah buat diceritakan, indah buat dikenang.
    Dan saya yakin beribu-ribu Katijah lainnya diluar sana juga mengalaminya.
    Sayang….semua itu tak pernah terceritakan,
    tertelan berita buruk si Nirmala Bonat & Ceriyati.
    Bad News is Good News

    Seperti halnya beribu-ribu tenaga kerja pria lainnya
    Yang kisah manis dan jasanya tak pernah terungkapkan.
    Melainkan segelintir yang menjinayah dan memecah rumah..
    Yang buruk-buruk itu bagus buat dijual.
    Sungguh laku untuk dijual..
    Lagi
    Bad News is Good News

    Sayang….

    Like

  137. Karena Nila setitik rusak susu sebelanga, im sure not all indonesian workers been mistreated. News like that should be shared more, really nice to hear that 🙂

    Like

  138. @doeljengki: hehe ur comment oso like typical indon comment lah…putting some info wit the hope that it will connect wit the rasa sayange issue…but at the end i dont see any leading point??? obviously trying to make malays in malaysia looks bad in such way…but the glaring point im stating here…THIS CAMBRIDGE PROFESSOR doesnt know with all his good grades to prove that the song really belongs to indons properly

    BTW, letme tell u the academic system in malaysia!!! like shamsul said, thanks to the govern for the NEP lah…most of malays good student stayed in local public universities…while all those brilliant nonmalays student , due to lack of places in local public universities, they spend their own money going outside lah

    in universities, if u go lah u can get two groups of malaysian student, most malays who are a year younger from matriculation program and most nonmalays who are a year older from STPM program…although both programs are preuniversity program, but STPM is 5 times harder which produces better quality of students (whose mostly nonmalays)…not to mention chinese which i really admire them due to their hardworking habit

    got it, cambridge prof??? now, why dont u argue with me what is the point behind this to prove that the rasa sayange song belongs to Indons??? hopefully u can answer properly and pls dont do the simple mistake like running away and not answering the Q…after all ur the Cambridge prof right??? noway u can do such a silly mistake…hehe(i hope) 😉

    Like

  139. Dear tried to Be honest.

    Again, thanks for the response. My point is very simple. In order to minimize incidents of Indonesian workers being manipulated, Indonesia must put its house in order.

    In other words, regulate the mechanism for Indonesian working abroad. Ensure that they come to Malaysia through proper channel. Ensure that maids sent here are fully qualified to work. Punish severely Indonesian calo who mislead these humble folks . Put behind bars the Indonesian port officials who insist on money to be handed to them on Indonesian maids returning to Malaysia.

    Remind Indonesians who want to work in Malaysia that they must respect the law of the land. Do remind Indonesian press not to intentionally portray Malaysia as cruel to Indonesian workers.

    The ball is at Jakarta’s court. I have yet to listen to Bapa SBY advising media there on the need to be objective. By the way, have you heard of any Indonesian media informing Indonesians on the facts that more than 20000 Indonesian maids who ran away , often after looting the jewelerry of the ladies of the houses.

    Like

  140. Dear DoelJengki.

    I refer to your remarks. Actually Malaysians are proud of the achievements of Malaysians who achieved excellent grades in academic field, be it local or foreign universities.

    The race factor is irrelevant here. I mean no disrespect to you but what actually you achieved by ridiculing others. I believe the more positive attitudes is to look into how you can help Indonesia( your beloved country) in many various ways. Putting down others does not do you any goods.

    Recently part of Sumatera was badly hit by earthquake. Hei. I have an idea. Why dont you spend more time to gather funds to help them. I am sure you have ample time, jugding from your meaningless ranting about others.

    They say those who lose a character lose everything. May sanity prevail. May hatred be removed from our mortal heart.

    Like

  141. @kamarul : you said that you want proof. i gave you proof. now you say a’m being out of topic.

    how typical of you malaysian to blame others when you are wrong in the first place.

    Like

  142. @doeljengki: hehe me wrong??? of course im always wrong lah, ur the Cambridge professor, ur always right…anyway i will just use ur words back here…how typical indon, just run away from answering the Qs…dahlah main sondol je bagi proofs and all…at the end proof doesnot make any sense at all lah…how come Cambridge prof got so low thinking like this…now i doubt of ur good grades over there

    hey Camb prof, letme tell u this, even this simple thing oso u cant think huh, what kind of prof r u really? my explaination of the malaysian educational system above had aledy make ur proof like craplah and useless…u cant get good malay students outside the country while the best nonmalay students are there…of courselah u can see these ppl there at cambridge…my point is u cant use this proof tosay that malay students cannot achieve at par with nonmalay students…im a student, i know lah, what are u? but of courselah, quantity wise, chinese students are very good…

    this proof of urs should buang into laut sumatera aledy lah…that dolah kurdis guy(thanx to him) aledy tell u this laut sumatera crap being claimed in UUD45,Penataran P4 pola 100 Jam, Kewiraan, Ilmu Sosial Dasar,PMKI…why are u so like cannot think one huh? its even wrong for uguys to state it here and then ur asking for map somemore??? what a total mess…hehe act like Cambridge prof konon…

    Like

  143. Fact 1: Malay in Malaysia context is a word coined by Malaysian government for it’s own propaganda (please refer again, and again, the above and all the Rasa threads on what’s the Malaysian gov definition) — Malays are Malaysian but Malaysian may not be Malays.

    Fact 2: A song that has been composed more than 50years can be used by anyone in his/her own version and folklore can’t be claimed by anybody or country. — It is nice to know where it’s from now but that doesn’t change a thing. If let’s say a Maluku (sorry if I spelled wrongly) decendent in Malaysia used it to promote his new adopted country, he’s not stealing right? So how sure are we that there are no Maraukus in Malaysia???

    Fact 3: Dear Kamarul, since people don’t like to be called Indon, please respect that. If I tell you Malay is a degorative term, would you still like me to call you that????

    Fact 4: Malay languange has been widely used in this region in the old world and known to the then powerful western world, so basically all ethnic people in ths region, including Philipines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore are known as Malays — so by calling names to Malays is just like calling names to yourself, unless your ancesters were not from this region. (Pardon me ah, I don’t have any documents to support this claim one)

    Fact 6: The Western world known this region when Malacca was famous and maybe that’s why it’s known as Straits of Malacca since the earliest found map. Unless you can produce an older map to show that it was Selat Sumatra than you can fight for the change of name in the international court. BUt I think that the word Sumatra doesn’t even exist then, maybe it should be selat Acheh? or Selat Srivijaya? (Pardon me again ah, no docs for this)

    Fact 7: (especially Shamshul anuar) Don’t ever believe everything in your textbooks. You may find many question asked may not be answerable by your school teachers. I had plenty such experience myself. How many years we were thought in textbooks that 513 is a racial initiated event – have you read the book May 13? BTW, those who challenged Malaysian Malays academic achievements, could any Indonesian name some themselves. Anyway, it’s meaningless.

    Fact 8: Being Patriotic is good but there are more civilised ways to demonstrate that. People respect rational dicussion and not emotional arguments. Freedom of speech is important but certain balance must be made. You burn my flag I burn yours and what’s next? We start shooting at each other? Is that the freedom that you want? In exchange for chaos???

    Fact 9: Dear Indonesia friends, you are not happy the way some Malaysian treats Indonesian. Have you looked into yourself 10years back how you have treated the Chinese, dare I say it’s worst? In Malaysia, just a fraction of people behaved like that, they behaved like that to everyone actually, including Malaysian from other states or ethnic. Do please get your facts right. By the same notion, China should have taken military action against Indonesia 10yrs back. Also, you can’t deny that many in this problematic group has ancesters from the Indonesian islands, they may share your ancesters. So are you not actually cursing yourselves?

    Fact 10: This thread is getting too far stretched from it’s original discussion and getting less productive. Dear all, if you want to state your argument point, you don’t have to add any emotional quote and name calling. It starts to sound like catfight.

    Like

  144. @dolah Kurdis

    Of course bad news is good news…
    Didn’t you know that of all the crimes happened in Malaysia, only 20% were commited by foreigners. But your newspaper can make it look quite the opposite. Infact, they make it like it’s all done by Indonesian. It’s true (I dont have time to look for the link, but someone (important) from The Malaysian Police force said it). Worst, a lot of Malaysian who commit a crime pretend to be Indonesia. This is a known fact.

    I guess the press needs to report something nice about each other. If you’ve watched “Bowling for Columbine” by Michael Moore, ít’s almost the same analogy. Why American likes to shoot, carried, and purchase guns? because their TV station always report something scary on the street. In Canada (an equal in economic and demographic), their TV station report an everyday life. Guess what, they almost don’t have a gun related violation crime.

    @Shamshul anuar

    Yes, the ball is supposed to be at our government. It’s being done very slowly now. Our country has been in a lot of screw up. We are still trying to make a change in running our country. Perhaps the government is still trying to combat all corruption within it’s agencies first, then on business level like the Immigrant worker. I do hope they would come to their senses soon.

    I feel like the government is ashamed that they had to sent their citizens as a hard labor aboard, yet they can not refuse the fact that they has bought income to this country. Why can’t they be like the Philliphines who aware of their HR Assets, develop it to its fullest so they are able to sent qualified workers abroad and protecting them.

    Like

  145. Early this year, My Boss asked me to join him watching F1 race in Sepang. I refused. In August 2007, company told me to go to Singapore but with a day visit to Genting. I refused too.

    I will go to any country but not Malaysia. I think that Indonesia in all means is bigger than Malaysia. Malaysia always steal our assets because that country is not as rich as Indonesia. Islands? They had stolen and is trying to steal again. Culture? Batik, wayang, satay… even a song, they stole. What a shame.

    Like

  146. Dear Vic.Kyle.

    Many thanks for your response. Rest assured that I am not here for bashing , be it racial, or religious. Rest assured that I am also critical. Facts that I have are not derived solely from text book.

    As for May 13, clearly I believe recently quite a number of politicians especially from DAP were playing with fire. Put it bluntly, recently, a member of DAP blamed several Malay politicians on this racial clash.

    Young people, ignorant of history of course tend to believe it. Out of respect of delicate racial composition, Malays do not want to be involved in this blaming session. I do not have to refer to textbook about this. I have many living witness to the May 13. Suffice to say, if Malay politicians want to “retold” the stories, DAP would be in trouble.

    Many incidents that provoked Malays were of course not told. At least, Malaysians should be thankful that Barisan National Govt is not keen to incite hatred as done by DAP.

    Do not get me wrong.I have many friends from Chinese community. I also do not blame Chinese or Malay for May 13. But certainly, to hint that May 13 is a convenient way for authority( read meaning Malays) to achieve its goal is insulting to Malays.

    Why do not you visit Malays in their 50s or 60s and get their stories about May 13. Boy, you are going to get a big surprise at their “facts”. Again, if my writing hurts your feeling ,please accept my sincere apologies. I mean no disrespect to you.

    Do not assume that I am not critical to Barisan National or UMNO. Many Malays are angry at overly lenient immigration policies. I hope Malaysian Govt realizes that Malaysia is in danger of being swamped by illegal immigrants.

    To Tried to be Honest, again I appreciate your willingness to acknowledge the weakness in Indonesia’s side. But I believe it is a matter of attitude. With due to respect to Presiden SBY, I am sure he is aware of unethical calo who created the problem in the first place.

    Well, Your Excellency Bapak SBY, I believe you as a president has an authority and means to act vs them. So ACT on them. Arrest them and punish them severely. Put them behind bars. You can do it. You are the President, aren’t you?.

    Like

  147. Dear Kang Kombor.

    I refer to your remarks. It is one thing to be patriotic. It it however another story to be paranoid. What you have got to lose by visiting Malaysia? They say travelling widens the horizon. Obviously, you do not subscribe to that wise saying.

    What is it with preoccupation with batik, satay. Batik is well known in both Malaysia and Indonesia. Are you saying Malaysia must stops its thriving batik industry simply because Indonesia claims ownership of batik. And satay is very delicious, transcending cultural boundary.

    Are you saying Malaysians can not eat satay simply because Indonesia claims satay originates from Indonesia. It does not matter who created satay . It does not matter whether the creator of such a tempting delicacy was born in Indonesia, Malaysia or Tanzania or Sri Lanka.

    I may be critical of many Indonesian politicians who play to the gallery just to promote their self interest. But I am not paranoid. I still visit Indonesia when I have the time.

    Like

  148. @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne: im commenting on ur Fact 3, others i dont really have any prob…hehe

    first, i do know whats the meaning of “malay”, how the word arise, and all the degrading things about malays…i do admit it and i dont shy to be called malay…please continue to call me malay, becoz thats what i am and this fact is not gonna change forever…im proud of what i am, who i am, from where i came from!!!

    secondly, i do respect my fellow indonesians, if u looked at any of my comments, is there anything that i said to purposely degrading the indonesians? using improper words badly?? on the “indon” issue, its a malaysian jargon, its malaysian language…as far as i know it doesnot have any bad meaning…as for some malaysians who use this word to degrading the indonesians, we should not blame the word, we should blame the people who misuses it…thats why im asking a simple Q…why my fellow indonesians do feel bad when somebody called them with it??? why??? why??? personally i feel that they should not feel this way…but hey thats why im asking this simple question…JUST answer this simple Q, and i can simply STOP using the word…from all the indonesians here, the all-knowing princess, the Cambridge professor etc, NONE of them answered…:-)

    Like

  149. @Shamsul: im a malaysian malay, im not happy not only with malaysian govern’s policy on the foreign immigrant issue…but im more unhappy with the NEP, AUKU, our democracy level, freedom of expression etc

    about May 13, i wondered when Dr.Kua first published the book about it, as u accused, is there any violent protest being stoked? any racial tension about it? anybody dead becoz of it? Theres not only chinese, indians and others who supported the untold story of May 13 being published, theres oso malays there…

    now what is my point here?? The only reason we want to korek balik the May 13 untold story and The only reason im sure that u will NEVER admit is that we wanted to tell the ppl, whos really behind May 13?, who started the racial tension? who benefited alot from May 13? was it really racial tension or theres a political(UMNO) role behind it?? Hehe of course the best way for UMNO to scare away the ppl from listening, to cover up their secrets and role on May 13 is by accusing Dr.Kua of stoking racial tension…

    Like

  150. Fact 3: I don’t care what you think about the word but when people don’t like it, just STOP using it. OK?
    … i do respect my fellow indonesians, if u looked at any of my comments, is there anything that i said to purposely degrading the indonesians? using improper words badly? … How do you show respect when you don’t accept others view? It may not be degrading but just less appropriate? If you must – It’s like calling Malaysian as Malays but hey!!! I’m NOT a Malay!! Do u get it?? They could be Achehnese or Betawis but may not be Indon!! Fair enough? U try call a Bangladeshi a Bangla at his face and see if he’ll leave a mark at yours!!

    Fact 7: I quoted 513 as an example, not discussing about it (^_^) Glad you have resources to get your facts right. I’m certainly nat saying it’s Malays’ fault – just some people sacrificing peace for their own gains. BY ALL MEANS, NO INTENTION TO KOREK THE 513 ISSUE (Not here at least! he he)

    Dear Kang Kombor, you are always welcomed to Malaysia to proof that you are right about Malaysians. Do note that goverment policies doesn’t neccessary means people’s mind. (So Malaysian starts selling Bakso here and sooner or later it would be included into the Malays menu and promoted worlwide, shall we call that theft too? Then you should really see what the Singaporeans are doing!!!)

    Like

  151. hello my brother Vic.KyleEllane thank you. I hope you are Indonesian like mr kemsey fella hopefully there are more people like you. Ok I just agree to your fact no1 and no.2.
    Fact no.7 do not believe everything in text book well since I proofed two books written by Indonesian and published in Indonesia,they ask for a map? I dont want to use books from other countries especially Malaysia since its all lies to some Indonesian he he he but as a Malaysian I cannot choose the place to be borned peace for every body. Ok

    Like

  152. @triedtobehonest I think we have come to our meeting point. At least you and I regarding “good news is a bad news”. Tq to the host. I suddenly come to my sense of maturity he he he….after been provoked by our Indonesian brothers and sisters as a theif (maling), arogan, etc by alll mean ALL Malaysian are NOT ANGELS too. NOT ALL INDONESIAN ARE EVIL. To me we are equal.

    Like

  153. Everyone: hey guys, this has been a very long thread – almost 170 comments in all. You guys started with a lot of fear and loathing about each other but now even the most strident of you are beginning to see common ground.

    Good to see dolah, vic.kyle, shamsul, kamarul, triedtobehonest and others who have been very vocal come to the realization that:

    – there is wrong with our governments and systems
    – that Malaysians and Indonesians usually do not understand each other because they rarely have discussions (heated or otherwise) even though we are nerighbors
    – that beneath it all we are all alike – human beings trying to find our patch of happiness

    Carry on discussing but I wanted you guys to know that I feel very chuffed that much of the anger and misunderstanding is spent and that you guys are beginning to seeing eye to eye and, dare I say it, even begin liking each other 🙂

    Like

  154. well then here something i quoted from Utusan(pro govern mainstream media) and hope to share the view with uguys…

    DAP sudah melampau bawa warga asing ke Parlimen buat kenyataan burukkan Malaysia, kata Zainuddin
    KUALA LUMPUR 25 Okt — Menteri Penerangan Datuk Seri Zainuddin Maidin berkata DAP sudah melampau dengan membawa warga asing ke Parlimen bagi memberi pandangan terhadap sistem demokrasi dan keselamatan di negara ini. more at http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2007&dt=1025&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Terkini&pg=bt_93.htm

    Now, the malaysian opposition had started the move to bang the govern on the foreign immigrants mistreatment issue to the parliment. as we all thought…they are not going to bring up any indonesian case initially, looking at the exploding anti-indonesian sentiment among malaysian public. but im sure this canadian case is just the starting point which later they would address on other nations oso like indonesia, bangladesh etc as citizens of these nations do complained of mistreatment the most

    so in order for this move to be effective, well accepted by the malaysian public, im appealing to my indonesian friends as well from other countries, to exercise our outmost restrain to lower the inter-strait tension. this means pls no more flag burning and yang sama waktu dengannya…

    as u all read the news even further, the mainstream media has aldey playing the issue by stoking some ultranationalism sentiment…branding the opposition as unpatriotic etc in order to cover up this issue and scare away the public from listening to the opposition…

    So, everyone…are uguys good with this? 🙂

    Like

  155. quoting kamarul:
    “secondly, i do respect my fellow indonesians, if u looked at any of my comments, is there anything that i said to purposely degrading the indonesians?”

    @kamarul:
    Bravo, you could keep on using the word ‘indonesian’. You may consider that indon is only a jargon, but if it is hurting other people feeling, then it is not a good one and you may tolerate it. According to detik.com now there is a new jargon from one of m’sia’s house of reps member: “mat indon”

    quoting kamarul:
    on the “indon” issue, its a malaysian jargon, its malaysian language…as far as i know it doesnot have any bad meaning…

    @kamarul
    please go to this link:

    http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/archive.asp?y=2004&dt=0722&pub=utusan_malaysia&sec=rencana&pg=re_05.htm&arc=hive

    and this, our Minister has express official protest to malaysia government about the using of word indon toward indonesians:

    http://www.detiknews.com/index.php/detik.read/tahun/2007/bulan/05/tgl/13/time/130005/idnews/780073/idkanal/10

    and link from winterinoz:

    http://fairy.mahdzan.com/story/241.asp and http://fairy.mahdzan.com/story/240.asp

    @kamarul, I hope you will understand.

    Like

  156. ya sudahlah bagi-bagi aja……… gitu aja koq repot :p

    toh lagunya juga tidak sama persis kan…… malaysia punya versi sendiri, INDO (please dun say indon! sounds rude) juga punya versi sendiri…. anggap saja berasal dari sumber yang sama….

    there’s no way to prove that rasa sayange is Indo’s song nor Malaysian’s….. we both feels that one’s right and other’s wrong…… but no one really knows, since there’s no witness at the time the song was made, is it?

    stay calm n peace……!

    Like

  157. HAI MALINGSIA. . SUDAH CUKUP MENCURI-CURI!MANA KEBUDAYAANMU? MENCURI HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    DASAR MALINGSIA HANYA BISA MENCURI BUDAYA ASING ECPECIALLY INDONESIAN CULTURES!
    MALINGSIA
    MALAKsia

    MALINGSIA TRULY MALING OF ASIA!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  158. I think this Rasa Sayang controversy is truly an example of the aftermath of divide and rule. And many of us just fall flat into it. Maki hamun each other, when the real issue is Indonesia and Malaysia were separated by artificial boundaries by the British and Dutch. Rasa Sayang is a beloved song that belongs to this Nusantara and is sung by many of us in the region.

    Following my father’s line, I am a 4th generasi Chinese, following my mother’s, I am Burmese mix Baba Nonya. I grew up singing this song like it belongs to my own culture. Now I read somewhere it came from Ambon.
    When I went overseas to study and was asked to share a local song, I sang Rasa Sayang, Feelings of Love, and I explained to them that Malay has three words to say love – kasih, cinta and sayang. And they’re amazed.

    I think it’s silly to fight over the rightful owner of this song and demand royalties over it. Recognition, yes, and I think Malaysia should emphasise that this beautiful and simple song belongs to the Malay archipelago that encompasses Indonesia and Malaysia, though its real origins of it’s composer have possibly been lost in the ashes of time.

    Like

  159. after all the accusations being made against malaysia…why dont i heat up the thing a little bit hehe 🙂

    what about copycats songs of malaysian singer P Ramlee such as Hujan di Tengah Hari, Kata Dari Kalbu, Apabila Kau Tersenyum, Azizah, Tjik Mamat (Che Mamat) and Jalei-Jalei ( Yale-Yale song which was taken from the Berdosa Movie 1951). these songs as in those days do not have copyrights due to at that time we believe that the songs must be allowed to be shared to find common ground by neighboring countries. these songs were copies made by indonesian singers such as Sjaugi (Shaugi), Hasnah Tahar and Rien in the early 1980-an

    since nobody including unspun didnt give any comments on this…i put this thing up again…

    Like

  160. just to comment on the use of Indon word.

    THe country’s name is Indonesia
    The people are called Indonesian (s)

    Just like Malaysia and Malaysian(s).
    We don’t go around calling you Malas, kan.

    Thanks.

    BTW, peterpan, sheila on 7, ungu,radja,slank, krisdayanti, and all of our B-rated sinetron artists say hi to their loyal – hysterical fans in Malaysia.

    Like

  161. nice zakrul…after reading the posts in that blog…now i even has a 50-50 thinking that the Rasa Sayang hey is not even originated from Maluku.
    the malaysian version has HEY ends, oso in taiwan and hong kong versions. but only in Maluku got e’ ends

    maybe its Rasa Sayang hey first, then Rasa Sayange or the otherwise…who knows…mayb due to its e’ ends in Maluku version make those indonesians confident enough that the song is actually from Maluku

    hopefully somebody can find out about this, which one is the original 🙂

    Like

  162. @gadisbintang: TTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKK NNNNNAAAAAAKKKKKK! Sampai bila2 pun taknak…sebab? kurang bijak…titik 🙂 hehe

    Like

  163. Dear kamarul.

    Many thanks for your response. No. Nobody died because of the DAP guy view on May 13. No. there was no racial clash then. Thank god, sanity does prevail on vast majority although the same may not applied to that guy.

    No. The Chinese community does not find it nauseating. Of course the feeling may not be the same if the blame is on them. He was just playing to the gallery . The Malays were quite upset . And several Malay leaders did protest. I am thankful to them. If I am just going to depend on your attitude, Kamarul, “habislah”.

    Perhaps he forgot to “write” the provocations on the Malays. Of course, these parts were not told by Kua. I mean, it will defeat the objective: that is to blame UMNO.

    The reason why vast majority do not react is due to the fact that they fail to see the benefit on putting the blame on the other race. Why antagonize the other race and hiding under the pretext of wanting to know the truth. What guarantee that the antagonized race does not react and putting the blame back on the other party.

    My point is very simple. Malays see no credibility on the DAP’s view with regards to May 13. Perhaps Kamarul should refer to Malays in 50s and 60s on this sad incident.

    I must emphasize here that I am not anti Chinese. If DAP wants to “retold” the May 13, it must be prepared to be told point blank by Malay leaders on its “role” in provoking Malays. Simply because Malay leaders are reluctant to “retold” the stories does not mean that they do not know what DAP did.

    I see no reason why the blame game is to start again. Of what good if Malays and Chinese start blaming each other. Objective analysis of course is welcomed. Certainly not Kua’s assessment who is biased vs the Malays.

    As for Malaysian Govt, of course it must clean its acts. Tighten immigration rule. That I believe is a priority. As for NEP, despite what people said it is a beautiful concept for a fixed period. Fix the weaknesses. As for you, do realize that how difficult for Malays in vast section of private sector. I have seen it enough. How many capable Malays were sidelines simply because of the colour of skin.

    Like

  164. @shamsul: what do u mean by “If I am just going to depend on your attitude, Kamarul, “habislah”.” i dont get it…anyway can i ask u to withdraw ur accusation that im the one who came up with the words “dirt ass poor”

    Dr.Kua 513, he did go and find a malay leader on this issue. that prof whatever, i forgot his name. Hes one of malay leader of an organization at that time…he did gave a speech at the lauching ceremony…

    and please shamsul…what i see from Dr.Kua, its not important whether i agree with him onot, i may or may not. but what i see is hes trying to korek balik the untold story based on political spectrum…what u and some others is branding the political spectrum of his into a racial thing

    remember not all malays are UMNO, so when he talks about UMNO hes not talking about malays…dont we malays pretend lah that we dont stoke racial tension…the best evidence is Kursus tatanegara, everybody knows…and if u dont admit this, im gonna tell this story here with all the details…

    Like

  165. @shamsul: on NEP thing, u still evading from answering my question…why cant we give help based on income level???? its just a simple Q, hope u can answer this one 🙂

    Like

  166. eh another missing thing…um no offense ya but i got this, although u denied that ur a racist but ur views and stands seemed to me that ur one…no offense

    anyway…if unspun really interested in opening another thread on this NEP policy and May 13 so that our indonesian counterparts can see whats really happening in malaysia…i would appreciate it very much. dont want this to hijack this thread… 🙂

    Like

  167. my friend said. he is musician”Saya mau ikut megomentari lagu”rasa sayange/hey”. Pertama perkenalkan,saya adalah salah seorang mahasiswa jurusan seni musik,dan saya sedang menyusun tugas akhir. Selain belajar alat musik,saya juga mempelajari bermacam-macam mata kuliah musik seperti: komposisi,aransement dan semua materi tetang musik. Saya juga sering terlibat dalam pembuatan lagu dengan beberapa musisi.saya juga mengajar di beberapa tempat kursus musik di jakarta. Kita melihat permasalahan ini sudah semakin memanas. Banyak orang berkomentar hanya berdasarkan “panas hati”dan “rasa cinta negri”. Di sini saya coba memberikan komentar yang ilmiah.

    Beberapa hari saya mempelajari lagu itu. Saya coba membongkar “isi/materi” yang terkandung di dalam lagu tersebut.saya mempelajari komposisi dan aransemen-nya. Sebagai mahasiswa seni,urusan komposisi dan aransement sudah merupakan “makanan” pokok. Kita wajib memahami kedua unsur itu di dalam pembuatan lagu. Lagu rasa sayange mempunayai”nada dasar major”.tangga nada ‘pentatonik juga terdapat dalam Lagu ini.tangga nada pentatonik merupakan tangga nada yang lazim di pakai dalam musik-musik daerah di indonesia,kususnya jawa dan indonesia timur.

    Mungkin malaysia masih serumpun dengan Indonesia. Tetapi perlu kita ketahui,malaysia terletak berdekatan dengan indonesia sebelah barat(minang). Sedangkan lagu-lagu daerah berirama minang jarang yang mamakai skala tangga nada pentatonik. Lagu berirama melayu banyak menggunakan skala tangga nada “minor”. Jadi kemungkinan besar lagu “rasa sayange” berasal “bukan” dari barat.atau dengan kata lain bukan lagu berirama “melayu”. Kita bisa melihat dari lagu-lagu Malaysia, pencipta lagu-pencipta lagu malaysia kebanyakan menggunakan skala tangga nada “minor”. Kita bisa ambil contoh:isabela(search),suci dalam debu dll.aransemen dan komposisi di dalam lagu-lagu ini berbeda dengan komposisi yang terdapat di lagu-lagu indonesia yang cenderung menggunakan tangga nada “major”.

    Kalau kita melihat dari segi “lyric” lagu, lyric lagu sangat mudah untuk di “rubah”, beda lyric mungkin bisa beda arti. Tetapi aransement lagu yang di rubah akan membuat suatu lagu “hilang”. Kami musisi sering “merilis” ulang lagu orang. Mungkin kami bisa merubah lyricnya.Tapi pada saat kita merubah aransementnya,maka lagu tersebut juga akan “kehilangan keaslianya”.jadi orang mungkin tidak akan tau keaslian lagu gubahan kita tersebut.

    Tetapi dalam kasus ini,aransement lagu “rasa sayange”masih utuh belum di rubah, hanya beberapa lyrick saja yang telah di rubah, dengan kondisi ini,orang akan dapat dengan jelas melihat dan mendengar “keaslian” lagu rasa sayange. Mungkin orang malaysia boleh bersikeras bahwa itu adalah lagu mereka.mungkin mereka hanya melihat dari segi lyric yang telah dirubah. Tetapi hal itu tidak akan terjadi bila mereka mau dan “MAMPU” menguraikan unsur yang terkandung di dalam lagu tersebut(sesuai dengan yang saya paparkan di atas).”

    Like

  168. if anyone still need further proof, search ” rasa sayange” on youtube.com. On the list, you will find a very old version of the song. It was in a Dutch film around 1937-1940.

    Like

  169. @widya and triedtobehonest: i do get ur points, again i want to bring about the Bernie Convention, the only problem that we have here is that by proving that the song originated from Maluku donot grant us the right to say that the song belongs to Indonesia. to say that the song belongs to Indonesia, we must declassified it as folksong, as folksong can never be claimed by any nation, it can be used by any nation that shared the same heritage, by any means she likes, without any prior notice to anyone.

    the only way to declassified it as a folksong is to find the writer of this song. what i know( as i donot know much 🙂 ) by proving the arrangement and the version it being used in a Dutch film long2 ago, is just to prove that it originated from Maluku, didnt prove it belongs to Indonesia. right? :-0

    Like

  170. @widya and triedtobehonest: i do get ur points, again i want to bring about the Bernie Convention, the only problem that we have here is that by proving that the song originated from Maluku donot grant us the right to say that the song belongs to Indonesia. to say that the song belongs to Indonesia, we must declassified it as folksong, as folksong can never be claimed by any nation, it can be used by any nation that shared the same heritage, by any means she likes, without any prior notice to anyone.

    the only way to declassified it as a folksong is to find the writer of this song. what i know( as i donot know much 🙂 ) by proving the arrangement and the version it being used in a Dutch film long2 ago, is just to prove that it originated from Maluku, didnt prove it belongs to Indonesia. right? 😀

    Like

  171. Ah sudahlah … akhiri saja perdebatan ini. Satu hal yang jelas orang Malaysia tidak kreatif!!! Itu sudah terbukti. Capek ngomong sama orang yang “koppeg”.

    Like

  172. Dear kamarul.

    Many thanks for your response. I read your view with regards to May 13. “Habislah”, simply means that what a tragedy for Malays to embrace should their leader just simply adopts your attitude.

    With ease you imply that May 13 actually was a power struggle . Put it clearly, what people like you or Kua believed that May 13 was actually planned by some UMNO leaders to achieve their objective. Correct me if I am wrong, was that what you meant with the demeaning laugh, he , he” in your previous comment.

    I still remember how a shop owner in 1986 who opened a stationery shop in Damansara Utama told my university professor ( American , of course they do not know much about the racial clash) what you or Kua recently implied. I asked him a simple question about a DAP procession that happened during the period on which sadly Malays were provoked to the extreme. His face turn red. He was unable to answer me.

    Kamarul, jugding from your remarks, I assume you do not know much about May 13. Perhaps, you should take a trip down memory lane to get an objective view with regards to May 13. Ask around Malays in 50s to 60s. They will tell you the story, you know story that of course you will not get from Kua.

    I vouched on what I said. I have many living proof on this sad incident. All of them said one thing. How severely the patience of Malays were tested to the limit by extremists including those from DAP. I do not know how old are you. If you are 50s and above, you will agree to me. If you are younger, well just ask around and you will be surprise to listen how far Kua’s assesment from the truth.

    ThankGod, I appreciate several Malay leaders for their gut in telling the truth about May 13. Hence, my remarks , “habislah” if they also adopt your attitude. You know the pathetic attitude of looking down your own race as if they have done nothing good.

    The reason why Malays were not that keen to discuss May 13 is very simple. They simply do not wish to offend the Chinese community as it involved extremism from that community. Not everybody can accept the truth. Not everybody can be as calm as a Malay if he or she finds that somehow element of his race is implicated.

    Malays reluctance to discuss May 13 is not due to being afraid of the truth. Rather, being Malay character, they realize that a good intention can be deadly if it is out of hand. Why reopen the old wound. Healing itself takes a long time. Why create another problem simply because someone from DAP tries to show that he is the champion of his community.

    Again, I have to reiterate that I am not anti Chinese . I simply put the facts on the table. Facts that I gathered myself , not entirely from officialdom as of course people like will not believe it . Facts I got from expolicemen, villagers, housewife, office workers, religious leaders.

    And for once, you are right. Not all Malays are UMNO member. I am not an UMNO member. And I never deny extremism in Malay community, just like That I am aware about extremism in Chinese community.

    And you are wrong in saying that I reject any move “to korek balik” about May 13. What I( and majority of Malays, excluding you of course) reject is the tendency to put the blame on Malay leaders . They call a spade a spade. It is racial as Kua put the blame on the Malays. It is a racial thing as Kua himself is a racist , at least that is what malays feel.

    As for Kursus Tatanegara, enlighten the public and authority if racial card is played here. And do also enlighten Kua about how Malays feel everyday when pass along Jalan Maharajalela when Dewan Perniaggan Cina building published the number of days a Chinese school was closed( actually relocated to fulfill wishes of Chinese community but DAP again played the racial card).

    Like

  173. klu pown kite Msia cakap lagu rasa sayange adalah lagu Kepulauan Nusantara (Malay Archipelago), rase2nyer tak pantas pulak lagu tu dijadikan jingle promosi pelancongan kita!
    Karena lagu itu sememangnyer milik bersama.
    Jadi, sila guna lagu yang benar2 asli lagu tempatan kite untuk kite jadikan lagu promosi pelancongan kite tu!

    Sila berkaca, x pantas pulak muzik msia bertahta di negaranya sendiri, peminat muzik di msia pun lebih meminati muzik jiran kite iaitu Indon.

    Saya ni bangsa msia, melayu sgt, tp saye x faham dgn ape2 yg difikirkan oleh rakan2 saya di msia ni…

    Like

  174. @kamarul and @shamsul: The may 13 debate is fascinating but is not really relevant to the thread here. if you guys, and others may ant to join, to duke it out and to enlighten our Indonesian readers on May 13 you’re welcome to write me (ong[at]maverick.co.id) a posting to start that thread. I’ll put it in a new post. Otherwise, let’s confine the discussion in this thread to the Rasa not Sayang theme.

    Like

  175. @shamsul: maybe i dont know much about May 13 as im only in my early 20s. the point here is that the younger generation like us donot really know much about it especially when the govern donot encourage ppl about it. in my opinion, if we have prob, why dont we sit and talk about it, avoid using emotional inflammatory provocations. of course u will say its not easy, but hey its not impossible

    i do realized both malays/chinese sides did suffered alot during that time. u can go on saying all of those emotional inflammatory provocations but i really dont see something good coming out of it. i do see alot of explanations from Dr.Kua and Prof Syed Hussin (hes a malay) if im not mistaken. i dont see any of their comments to be racist, they donot blame any race either malays or chinese, not to mention emotional. whats they are talking about is what really happened that bring about the racial clashes? what the meeting in the Selangor MB resident is all about?? u know this meeting even occurred before the clashes. the UMNO govern did lose the election at that time, and when this thing happened, the elections result was canceled. did UMNO used this to maintain in power?? now i really hated u for calling me degrading my own race. i may/maynot agree with Dr.Kua but these Qs should be answered by UMNO.

    again i tell u, even though mayb ur older than me. i really HATED that u called me to be degrading my own race. the fact that i asked the UMNO leaders to answer these Qs donot means that im degrading my own race!!! thats the simple trick that ppl like u shamsul tried to impose to others who questioned UMNO leaders, “Pengkhianat Melayu”!!! That is ssssoooo damn bad. at least i know which is right or wrong regardless of racial entity, whoever did wrong must be punished. the way u talked, im really sure that u dont k have any idea what we the younger generations think about May 13. the fact that UMNO continues to zip their mouth about this and sweep the dirt under the carpets, more opposition figures talked about this thing, the more anti-UMNO sentiment will build up among malay younger generation whether u like onot!!!! Not to mentioned AUKU etc, UMNO will be brought down soon or later, that im sure about…. 😀

    anyway…do u support the formation a royal commission to investigate on May 13? 😀

    Like

  176. Dear kamarul.

    Many thanks for your response. It shows you are concerned about May 13. Only that you are misled. That is all.

    Do not personal, young man. You are still young. Only I hope you check your fact before talking. Obviously reading your comment makes me realized that you do not know much about May 13.

    As for meeting at the residence of Selangor Menteri Besar, are you saying Datuk Harun Idris plotted the racial clash? It is normal for for leaders or assemblymen to assemble a the head of govt’s house during election. What is so strange with that.

    And do check your fact. UMNO did not lose the election. UMNO and Barisan fared quite badly in the ellection. MCA was wiped out in Penang, the saving grace being UMNO holding the fort for Barisan. The result in Selangor showed no party held a majority. aND who said the election result was cancelled. Please enlighten me and the world, young man.

    This part is the part that you of course did not know. Did you know of a DAP procession that turned ugly where they mocked the Malays? Did you? Why dont you asked your parents.

    Did Kua asked the opinions of Malays including that of UMNO. You know, he is from DAP, a party that has wishes totally againsts that of Malays. Do you think Malays believe it. Except you of course as you are ignorant of history.

    Call a spade a spade they say. After condemning and insinuating your own race, you are upset when someone older advised you. Contrary to what you feel, UMNO never said anything about hiding the truth. UMNO encourages Malaysians to know the truth, But as the dominant political party that determines the future as it receives the mandate, UMNO is obligated to ensure that seeking truth does not turn into blaming session.

    Young people like you who never experienced seeing your own brother killed before your own eyes due to racial clash of course feel nothing about playing with fire. Malaysians should be thankful that at least UMNO leaders then and today are not vengeful. It did not publicly blamed DAP although it has all the evidences. It is just a Malay character. No need to open the old wound.

    It did not blame any race. Rather it tried to make racial integration a success. It is hard to do a balancing act. On one side you have a large section of population was under poverty then . On the other side you have a section of population that controls the economy, demanding the govt to stop so called “special privelleges” to the bumiputera but they themselves stay put in private sector with “speaking Mandarin is required” mentality.

    I am not saying that Malays or UMNO or any political party do not make mistakes. They did and some still doing it. We are after all human. But UMNO does deliver. A class of professional bumiputera exists nowadays because of UMNOs policy. Yet many Malays feel that no need of them to be appreciative although without policy of the govt( meaning UMNO initiated policy) they until today will never set their foot in aeroplanes, let alone studying in UK, USA.

    Kamarul, you condemned UMNO but fail to realize that the only that stand between DAP and getting to Malays is UMNO. Imagine even DAP had yet to assume power, its members mocked Malays during May 13. Just imagine what would they do if they assume power.

    As for royal Commission on May 13, I am not for it although I am not against it. But are you prepared to accept the evidences that Malays have vs DAP( not vs Chinese) . Are you prepared the reality that not everybody can accept the truth calmly the way Malays did. If I were to be the PM, I will not estabish the commision that it will only reopen the old wound. Maybe you are too young to understand.

    Contrary to what you feel, UMNO is not against people wanting to know the truth. it is however wants to make sure that the concern is genuine, not the type that Kua presented that played the racial gallery under the guise of wanting to know the truth.

    And actually you can have the truth. But first, discard the the mentality that make you feel great to insinuate your own race albeit you did it of course naively. Open your eyes, open your heart. Remove the hatred and seeking the truth is easier.

    And do remember, for some magazines and powers to be on the other side of Suez Canal , being a Malay and Muslim will automatically make you the guilty party. To them whatever policy that promotes the interests of Malays is bad.

    There are bad elements and good ones anywhere in UMNO and other parties. Some UMNO assemblymen are morons. So do some polticians from the other side of divides. I accept criticism. What I or any Malay worth his or her salt reject is the mentality that it is trendy to insult or mock ( you know the word He, he) his own race not because the race is guilty but because the colonial mentality that being Malay means that you must be the guilty party.

    You know not everyone is “merdeka”. By the way, have you tried asking DAP about the procession that turned ugly. Why not ask KUa. He seems to jugde people a lot. Why not ask him about DAP’s role here. Surely he can give an answer. I dare you.

    Again, I have to repeat that I never blame Malay or Chinese on May 13. May all Malaysians learn from this tragedy. And my last advice is have you asked your parents about May 13. Just ask.

    Like

  177. Dear Shamshul Anuar

    I don’t hope to offend, but after reading your comment above, I have a great interest in knowing how you think about the special privilege.

    It’s a sensitive issue I know, if you don’t feel comfortable, it’s OK.

    I have a mixed emotion on it, as a Chinese u know. Like I mentioned before in the other thread, I think it helped a lot of “Malays” (I have to bracket it, as it doesn’t really fits into my view of categorization) which I’m quite glad, but I know it has also been abused by many. So, what do you think? Would Kamarul and anyone else like to put your view too?

    Like

  178. My Information to all the debaters….

    1. Nusantara adalah sebuah kata yang pertama kali diciptakan oleh Tokoh Besar Soekarno (Presiden pertama Indonesia) untuk melukiskan negaranya yaitu Indonesia. Adalah akronim dari NUSA (Pulau) dan ANTARA. Nusantara artinya Kepulauan yang berada di antara dua Benua (Asia dan Australia) dan di antara dua Samudera (Hindia dan Pasifik). Indonesia adalah yang dimaksud Soekarno degan Nusantara. Malaysia bukan Nusantara, karena masih berada di benua Asia. Singapura mungkin masih bisa disebut Nusantara, tapi sepertinya bukan Singapura yang dimaksud saat Soekarno mengatakan ingin menyatukan Nusantara.

    2. Malaysia mengaku BATIK adalah berasal dari Malaysia. Tapi di situs kerajaan malaysia sendiri, mereka mengakui kalau batik itu berasal dari Indonesia (Jawa). Baca:
    http://malaysiana.pnm.my/04/0402batik.htm

    3.Malaysia pun mengaku KERIS berasal dari Malaysia. Tapi di situs tersebut pun ternyata, terdapat lebih banyak gambar keris dari INDONESIA dari pada keris MALAYSIA. Baca:
    http://malaysiana.pnm.my/05/0504keris_hulu.html

    4.Malaysia mengaku juga ANGKLUNG berasal dari Malaysia. Coba tanyakan sama para ahli Angklung MAyasia, dari mana mereka belajar Angklung? Mereka semua belajar di BANDUNG Indonesia.

    5.Mari Orang2 Indonesia, minta dengan TVRI dokumen rekaman acara TITIAN MUHIBAH, dimana lagu tersebut sering dinyanyikan bersama (disana para artis Malaysia menyayikan lagu Rasa Sayange dengan teks di tangan mereka). Orang2 Malaysia pun boleh minta dokumen acara tersebut kepada RTM atau TV3 (Saya lupa yang mana).

    6. Indonesia punya lebih dari 50.000 lagu daerah yang populer dan lebih banyak lagi yang tidak populer ke seluruh NUSANTARA. Rasanya Indonesia menggugat Malaysia bukan karena “mencuri” 1 lagu yang secara kalkulatif tidak ada artinya, tapi karena Malaysia sudah tidak menghormati lagi Indonesia sebagai ‘saudara serumpun’nya.

    7.Pemerintah Indonesia segera mendaftarkan hasil karya anak bangsanya.

    Lagu lagu seperti Bungong Jeumpa,Badindin,Kebile-Bile,Jali-Jali,Manuk Dadali,O Ina ni Keke, dll

    Tari-tarian seperti Saman, Seudati,Tanggai,Kecak,dll

    Makanan seperti Rendang, pempek, rawon, pecel, rujak,soto,coto, dll

    Kerajinan tekstil seperti songket,ulos,tenun ikat,dll.

    Tradisi seperti pencak silat, debus, ondel ondel dll

    Agar kejadian “The Rasa Not So Sayang” tidak terjadi lagi.
    Kepada rakyat Malaysia, Selamat menikmati kemakmuranmu!

    Like

  179. About wayang…
    Tahun 80an ketika saya menonton RTM dan TV3 Malaysia dari satelit. Saya tahu kalau yang namanya wayang di malaysia itu adalah MOVIE atau FILM dalam bahasa Indonesia. Tapi sekarang, Wayang di Malaysia telah berubah artinya menjadi pertunjukan Shadow Puppet sama dengan Wayang seperti terminologi yang sudah dipakai di Indonesia untuk Shadow Puppet semenjak beberapa bad yang lalu. Mengapa begitu ya?

    Mungkin Kamarul tahu jawabnya…. (“,)

    Tambahan tentang terminologi NUSANTARA (seperti sudah saya terangkan diatas) adalah betul diciptakan oleh Soekarno.
    Soekarno adalah seorang philosopher yang banyak menciptakan terminologi seperti PANCASILA(Panca = Lima, Sila = Dasar), NAWAKSARA( Nawa=Sembilan, Aksara=Huruf), BERDIKARI(Berdiri di atas kaki sendiri), AMPERA (Amanat Penderitaan rakyat), TRIKORA (Tri ‘3’ Komando Rakyat) dll, termasuk NUSANTARA…

    So MAlaysia…. Tak pantas menyebut Dirinya bagian dari Nusantara…

    Like

  180. To Shamsul and others, the May 13 discussion is over here
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/28/readers-request-may-13/

    i had put up some view of mine about Dr.Kua’s book and the declassified documents released by British High Commission on May 13 coup d’etat. maybe im ignorant of history and so as accused by Shamsul but I found no reason to disbelieve those dispatches…

    really, i dont understand u shamsul, ive aledy stated that i hated u to call me that. in such way that ive aledy told u, u continued to do so. i do respect u maybe due to ur older than me(?) but could u give me some respect by not doing something that i hated. anyway u cleverly didnot substantiate on it, feeling that UMNO leaders are not doing a good job does NOT means im degrading my own race…cut the crap and nagging aledy…btw DONOT cont our discussion on May 13 here, pls use the link above…

    @Tommy Joe: im so sorry becoz u had a total misunderstanding on wayang. wayang is cinema, it has different meaning with movie/film coz u can even watch movie/film through tv/pc/vcd. shadow puppets in malaysia is called wayang kulit (pls dont ask why, i dont know lah 🙂 ). Nusantara is actually being created by Soekarno? are u sure? im not a language specialist etc so why dont u help me by putting some facts on it? Thanx…

    Like

  181. Kamarul… Guru (CikGu) saya pernah bilang, “Kecerdasan itu bukan karena mengetahui, tapi karena memahami”.

    Saya sudah jelaskan arti kata Nusantara, apakah masih juga tak mengerti?
    Sebelum saya beri bukti bahwa Nusantara itu diucapkan pertama kali oleh Soekarno. Saya nak tahu dulu, apakah arti Nusantara bagi orang Malaysia berbeda dengan kami?
    Coba kau beri penjelasan apa makna kata Nusantara dalam bahasa malaysia.
    Yang aku tahu, itu bukan dari kosakata Melayu.
    Kalau kalian tak punya jawaban, apa guna aku berpanjang-panjang menjelaskannya. Aku tak mau seperti menggarami lautan, memberi keterangan untuk sesuatu yang telah jelas. Lagi pula kau masih tetap akan berkeras kepala? (Pardon me…)

    Like

  182. @Tommy Joe: Tambahan tentang terminologi NUSANTARA (seperti sudah saya terangkan diatas) adalah betul diciptakan oleh Soekarno.

    im really sorry, cant help it. u said u aledy explained it. can i know where is it? i didnt say ia dtg dr kosakata melayu, sy juga tak cakap yg ianya tidak dtg dari kosakata bahasa indonesia, sy juga tidak kata ianya tidak diciptakan oleh Soekarno…the only person that came up with this in the first place is u

    since ur the first to came up with this (which i dont deny) and u aledy said that u aledy explained it…so why dont u show it to me where is ur explanation????…im not so clever and i dont have the supernatural power to understand whats in ur mind unless u explained to me lah

    uve got to be kidding me, even this simple thing oso u wanna argue with me lah…explanation please??? cheers man 🙂

    Like

  183. @Tommy Joe: im withrawing my prev comment

    owkay owkay no need to argue bout this. ive aledy seen it and i really dont know why i didnt see it before, maybe im going blind or the akismet playing hide and seek with me, either one doesnot matter…i will comment on this later… 🙂

    Like

  184. come on Tmmy Joe! you swallow everythings you get from your own Indonesian version kind of definition about things..kenapa tidak banyak orang indonesia seperti Vic.Kyle,Kemsey, come on man! I am about to stop now you really make me come back with your narrow minded. It never cross your mind that Malaysia consist of Bugis,Minang,Jawa,Melayu,Banjar,Bawaean,Arab,India,Chinese,Japanese, so so narrow monded you are. This people were here since there are Indonesia or Malaysia. If you want to argue here dont bring up your high school kind of text books.

    Like

  185. I think @Shamsul Anuar (I really recpect you during Ambalat case) don’t waste your time and your valuable points regarding May13 or umno or DAP here. Many Indonesian dont even know the history of their neighbouring country. That is why the issue of copyright,wayang,rendang appear here. Pity pity….
    I really hope you can focussed on the differences of term and terminoligies of what is Indonesia? and what is Malaysia? What is Nusantara? so that people like @Tommy Joe will have same sort of paradigm shift regarding the issue. Now he is relying on his Indonesian High School text book. I suspected he is refering to Kewiraan, Wawasan Nusantara, Buku Penataran Indonesia all those carp! huh….

    Like

  186. Hi Michael, fair comments based on proflound knowledge. I wish your people were like you. UMNO’s control over media and indoctrination really work. Can you suggest your people to learn from Datok Anwar Ibrahim?

    I wish your people refer to other source of knowledge than the HIS story provided by your regime. Malaysians, Put yourselves in universal perspective and see how you contribute to the world. That’s how you should honor yourselves.

    Fellow Indonesian, let’s learn and work together to transform Indonesia anew.

    Like

  187. @dolah kurdis: is it true that Tommy Joe was quoting from those textbooks? if then i can just argue using his definition which i never agree and i never deny. Tommy, im arguing based on ur list okay 🙂 No hard feelings…

    1. um negeri Sabah dan Sarawak di Pulau Borneo nusantara juga? Sabah dan Sarawak kan Malaysia? jadi Malaysia bukan nusantara? Kalo Malaysia bukan nusantara, Sabah dan Sarawak juga bukan nusantara. jadi kalimantan juga bukan nusantara kan? jadi indonesia nusantara, kalimantan nusantara? soalan2 ini bukan untuk mempersoalkan atau menyentuh sensitiviti mana2 negara tetapi untuk membuktikan bahawa kenyataan Tommy tidak persis, goyah dan boleh ditolak dengan mudah 🙂

    2,3,4. Malaysia mengaku BATIK, ANGKLUNG dan KERIS adalah berasal dari Malaysia? tolong buktikan siapa yang berkata demikian tq

    3. versi lagu Rasa Sayang hey di Malaysia lebih banyak dari versi lagu Rasa Sayange di Indonesia. http://arezeo.blogspot.com/ jadi adakah lagu ini berasal dari Malaysia?

    5. lagu yang dinyanyikan semasa TITIAN MUHIBAH ialah Rasa Sayange, liriknya sangat berbeza dengan lirik lagu Rasa Sayang hey, boleh dengar disini http://arezeo.blogspot.com/ . kalo lirik berbeza, kenalah pakai teks kan? sekarang, yang mana muncul dulu Rasa Sayang hey ke Rasa Sayange? Tiada siapa pun tahu, jadi kita tidak tahu yang mana original, yang mana tiruan, siapa yang meniru dan siapa yang mencuri…

    6. beberapa versi rakaman lagu Rasa Sayang oleh penyanyi Taiwan, Hong Kong etc sebelum ini, http://arezeo.blogspot.com/ mengadaptasi lirik dari Rasa Sayang hey dan bukan Rasa Sayange, tanpa kebenaran Indonesia. kenapa tidak diambil tindakan?

    7.Saya sokong 100% Pemerintah Indonesia segera mendaftarkan hasil karya anak bangsanya.

    @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne: Bilo mu nak kelik kelate? maaf deh nk tanyo, mu ni jante ko tino? confuse kawe hehe 🙂 kalo kawe kecek mace sie maaf deh, baru blajar 🙂

    Like

  188. Sepertinya, bangsa rumpun melayu gemar membajak. Pemerintah Malaysia dan Indonesia perlu bekerja keras untuk mendisiplinkan bangsa masing-masing.

    Masyarakat Indonesia gemar membajak lagu India, lagu Mandarin, software komputer Amerika; sedang Malaysia gemar membajak budaya tradisional Indonesia.

    Indonesia (240 juta) + Malaysia (24 juta) = 264 juta, we are the great nations… kalau tidak segera bersatu, tidak mungkin segera menandingi peradaban Barat, Tiongkok, Asia Timur, dan India.

    Rasa sayange, rasa sayang sayange …

    Like

  189. I think, reffering to MC saying somewhere up there, its not the legality of the song is in question, since according to Bernie convention, Malaysia didnt break any law in using the song (unfortunately). But is it ethical???

    Ethic is something we tends to forget under all kinds of circumstances. Like a hospital who may refuse to admit people who dont have enough money. Sure, as business entity, they have the right to do so. But is it ethical??? Thats why we scorn hospitals who do so.

    Like

  190. @dolah kurdis: is it true that Tommy Joe was quoting from those textbooks?
    Kamarul,
    Yes, In fact I suspected he uses a primery or secondary school text book. Vic.Kyle already said those are the propaganda of the people who rule at that time. i agreed with that. I do not deny that Malaysia also has her own propaganda.

    If he is not a norrow minded he wont used the term dan definiton according to his beloved Sukarno. I dont want to argue about Sukarno (good bless upon him) definition of Nusantara since he’s no longer exist in this world!

    Like

  191. u want my medical view on ethics huh? ethics is so subjective, it is so complex that we cannot define exactly what it is…in medical, ethical issues are always interpreted based on medicolegality. ethical guidelines are only used within the nation, if we wanted to settle international issues, we go by medicolegality…even within a nation, the interpretation of ethics are not the same ie different ethnics and cultures…

    examples: euthanasia in western and eastern nations differ greatly. if indonesia said its unethical to steals, malaysian said its unethical to fitnah others stealing if we dont have the proof…this is very subjective and we cannot solve problems based on either one, becoz it doesnt applied to the other…so thats why we go by legality, its more objective…

    Like

  192. @kamarul

    That means, in Malaysia, you can freely use other peoples stuff as long as no one sees you took it?

    Like

  193. “if indonesia said its unethical to steals, malaysian said its unethical to fitnah others stealing if we dont have the proof…this is very subjective and we cannot solve problems based on either one, becoz it doesnt applied to the other…”

    Kamarul bro! you have proofed your points. Congratulations !

    Like

  194. wah …been everywhere, I forgot to check this thread … and its more than a hundred comments. congratulations unspun, this might the hottest subject you ever bring up to the blogosphere (will wait for another hot issue again 🙂

    @kamarul, with the comments contributed…I guess this thread will not as hot as now if you do not participate at the first place…hehe …

    @Unspun, you might want to put time limitation to this discussion, I see that after all the discussion and fruitful comments by michael chick, kamarul, vic.kyle.ellane, etc finally we almost come into a point when people can understand each other, however, there are always new readers with a comments that is not new and a bit provocating (sorry sorry did not mean to degrading anybody’s comment, but those comment are almost the same with the early comments been made and its hectic to see the same go on again), so I would suggest that unless you have a new facts/links/news to contribute, better to read the thread from the beggining, its enlighting I believe.

    Peace to all !

    Like

  195. thanx dolah Kurdis and Pretty, im just being argumentative, i really know nothing in the first place…

    @triedtobehonest: u still dont understand my point. how we interpret ethical issues are different in different nations…indonesia may perceived stealing is bad, but malaysian perceived fitnah (by not proving ur accusation) even worse, (most malaysians are religiously conservative esp muslims, in Islam it even said that fitnah is even worse than killing, so this view of malaysians i think probably contributed by Islam, correct me if im mistaken)

    my point is when theres an international issue, we cannot look at the issue based on certain nation’s view. why? becoz the other will never accept it. the best way to go is through the legal system. im not saying stealing is not wrong and we are not living in stone age either… 🙂

    Like

  196. @kamarul

    Certain nation’s view? well, we have MC (i believe he is american) who said that Rasa sayange belong to the Indonesian people. The Singapore expats said similar thing. If we have a vote with 10 foreigners (with 10 different nationality), I believe they would say the same thing.

    Laws are made by the people in power. If the people in power changed, the law can swiftly be changed too. If we don’t use our very own heart & soul (usually, thats where ethics come from), what would become of the human race. Although it sometimes made an illogical way of thinking. But, the religion concept (including islam) can not be made into logical thinking completely isn’t? Only faith.

    Like

  197. Hi moderator,

    Could you redirect the discussion to the main points?

    Nevertheless, It helps me understand my neigbour

    Like

  198. @triedtobehonest: uve got to be kidding me, *sigh*. okay lets put it this way, my comments below are not to offense or degrading u, im just guiding u to understand my point. please donot resist… 🙂

    in order to bring this case to the ICJ, the least things we need are the judges, the law and the lawyers. imagine this, we select mike (an american?), singaporeexpats (singaporean?) and eight others which we found them anywhere in this blogosphere ( the ONLY nonmalaysian, nonindonesian club) and we put them at the judges’ chairs (a bit higher i think). then we discuss among us to create the law based on our own lovely, peaceful hearts and youthful souls (which i dont think will finish in the near future). lastly the lawyers, me and u representing respective nations (im sure ill be struggling to be one, the hell i dont know what to say)…and i would ask u, does this seemed to be logical to you? (maybe i exaggerated few things though 🙂 )

    of course everybody do have dissatisfaction on certain laws, thats normal. but um rejecting the whole laws system here (international laws) really seemed logical to you? if u say its logical, then i dont think so we will be here right now, our species will be long extinct from this planet long2 time ago, i think. Hmm, the last part looks lovely, but um can u please help me by defining the words religion and faith? Please, later when u got the definitions, do tell me that they are totally 2 different things. thanx 🙂

    Like

  199. @ Lia: with pleasure.

    This has been one loooooonggg thread. The encouraging thing is that many of you who started by calling each other’s names are getting in the spirit of a real conversation which consists of some give and take.

    Much of the debate has been about who has the right to the song. My view is that both countries have the right because they are culturally similiar in that they have a sprinkling of different ethnicities from the “Malays Achipelago”.

    Malaysia also has Maluku people but because of political reasons it has to call them Malays and thereby in a way forfeits its claim to the song, which seems obviously from Maluku. I’ve posted my opinions on this in Out of Step.

    Can Indonesia assert its right to the song? Probably but it would be a whole lot of bother which may not be worth the effort.

    The intriguing question for me is why are Malaysians and Indonesians so ignorant of each other’s cultures and aspirations when they have so much in common?

    Like

  200. Hi, I am new here and although my backgorund is from the Science stream, I do realise the important of history and wishes to share it.

    Do you know that before the independence of Indonesia (62 years ago) and Malaysia (50 yaers ago) the British called the whole of Nusantara (inclusive Java) as the Malay Archipelago and the Dutch called their colony as the East Indies.

    Way back somewhere in 1826, the British and Dutch divided the Nusantara among themselves this archipelago started where the Birtish Bencoolen (Bengkulu) was traded-off with the Dutch Malacca.

    The Malay islands (Bintan and Riau etc.) was taken by the Dutch inclusive of the the Natuna islands (which was very near to Trengganu than any modern Indonesia soil). Also remember it was the Achenese and the Malay Riau islanders who after the fall of Malacca to the Portugese came trying to win back the Malay port year after years.

    Actually, the serumpun is just the Malays in the Peninsular with the Riau islanders and the Sumaterans (the foods are the same-just go to Medan).

    The conflict from the early history is just between the Javanese and the others and this can be explained by the origin of the name Minangkabau. At Muaro Jambi, there is an area called Melayu which have alot of Hindu candis’ relics spread over 11 square kilometers and is siimilar to the candi found in the Bujang valley in Kedah.

    So what the fuss is all about, just keep digging in the books (no need to dig any acheological sites) and find the truth which is still out there. Cheers!

    Like

  201. I actually hate this kind of arguments, but this is my 2 cents, anyway.

    I think it is safe for me to assume this, from my empirical experiences (since i live in several malay populated areas in indonesia throughout my life),
    no indonesian malays DARE to claim that the song is from malayan heritage. anybody from any ethnic in indonesia can firmly confirm that the song is from mollucan heritage only by the lyrics and tunes…

    Indonesian malays have more pride to their own true heritage than claiming the obviously eastern-indonesia-influenced tunes and lyrics.

    I was born from a small town called mempawah in west borneo, and even in just that 1 town only, the malay culture is so full, rich, and exquisite, many many songs and cultural creativities are owned by that town’s malay populations, and some of them even make me proud that i was born in that town, even if im a bataknese,

    heck, in many occasions i still sing “sebukit rama” and “galaherang” along with my own ethnic folksongs “butet” or “tano batak”.

    and i havent talk about pontianak malays, or riau malays, and even medan malays…

    to claim that ‘the song’ originated from malay culture is an insult to the creativities of malay people.

    Malay ethnic(s) already has a rich culture, have pride in it, why claim other ethnic’s folksongs, no matter how beautiful they are?

    i understand that you might think it is not really that important, but try to see things in our perpective here (or at least my perspective),

    many indonesians are proud of our diverse cultural heritage, but even then we wouldnt try to claim them all to 1 cultural singularity.

    The malaysian claim to that song hurt the hearts of both indonesian malays and the mollucans.

    Unspun: Those are very good points Bonar. Very fresh insights of Indonesian Malays that I had not even considered. Thank you. Would love to have a chat with you some day in the lapo 🙂

    Like

  202. This is going to be a loooooong one (^_^)
    my apologies m( _ _)m

    Dear dolah Kurdis,
    ha ha :p thanks for mentioning me a few times. Twice u said I was Indonesian, u can find out from here, https://theunspunblog.com/2007/05/10/should-unspun-or-shouldnt-unspun/#comment-25710
    Maybe you’ll like to tell us where were you from in this thread: Where do our ancestors come from? https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/20/where-do-our-ancestors-come-from/
    Fact 7 was actually directed to Shamshul Anuar but he is kind 🙂 hope u didn’t missed the other 7 facts earlier.

    Dear Tommy Joe,
    I don’t think our government ever claimed that Batik, Keris, Angklung (even Rasa Sayang) were from Malaysia. They simply says it were all from Malays, which includes all ethnic cultures in Nusantara. (BTW, what’s Angklung? DON’T LAUGH!!) However, by the way the constitution define “Malays”, no wonder everyone thinks Malaysia owns it.
    After all, you can’t deny that Indonesians make up a huge part of the Malaysia Malays population – so why so surprised that we shared the same tradition?

    You don’t have to worry about most of the mentioned songs and dances, most of us here never heard of those. BTW, I never heard anyone registered Waltz or Tango or Cha-cha belongs to a country, anyone could enlighten?

    Although many food shared the same name with Indonesian counterpart, I can assure you that they taste and look mostly differently. If both countries want to register those foods, Singapore will be in panic! Ha ha!

    If you registered silat, then you couldn’t put it in the SEA Games anymore my friend.

    What do you call Wayang Kulit in Indonesia? I don’t think there’s a change in the meaning of wayang in Malaysia…. now, where’s my Kamus Dewan Bahasa??

    Dear Kamarul,
    Cinema = Pawagam lah – mind if my Malay not so good.
    I must congratulate you! Your tone sounded much much nicer now, no less provocative. Ha ha ha! Keep it up, thanks to you my eyes are straining now :p
    Gawe tak pergi Kelate la, bz kejo. Gapo tanyo?

    Dear lia,
    I agree with you on the control over media was quite annoying, although sometimes it’s necessary to contain the so sensitive nation, but also easily abused too. However, I must beg to differ on your point to the ex-PM, he’s still a politician, won’t gain my trust for now.
    …I wish your people refer to other source of knowledge than the HIS story provided by your regime… Everyone should do that, not just Malaysian. Every government wants their people only to learn what they want it’s people to know, so is Indonesia, Singapore and every other countries.

    Dear KD,
    Indonesia + Malaysia + Singapore + Brunei = the only countries in the world that understand Malay Language could be a strong nation if not divided by 4 borders. That’s why our previous leader initiated ASEAN albeit we can’t be one country.

    Dear Pretty,
    Agree with you on Kamarul, ha ha ha ha.
    I am loosing track on the many long threads of the same issue here already, luckily Unspun did a summary here : Out of Step https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/26/out-of-step/
    I wonder any new reader could complete the whole thread.

    Dear triedtobehonest,
    At last someone got the ultimate definition of Race = human race. (Just my opinion)

    Dear Bonar,
    Are you forgetting that there are Indonesians and Mollucans in Malaysia too? BTW, was the song invented before or after Indonesia is founded? Was Mollucans part of Indonesia during Independence or even before the Dutch rule? Ah! No offences, just like to know more. Note: I (and most Malaysian) never said that we own the song!! Oh, you’ll have to read back the whole thread and other related threads.

    Like

  203. @kamarul
    we cannot look at the issue based on certain nation’s view. why?

    This is why the discussion take sooooooo loooong.

    @bonar
    Malay ethnic(s) already has a rich culture, have pride in it, why claim other ethnic’s folksongs, no matter how beautiful they are?

    again this is the definiton of Malays according to Indonesian versions. Those who live along the coastal areas refused to join the republic of Indonesia state (republik Indonesia serikat) are the Malays. To Soekarno’s (again pardon me may god bless upon his soul)

    Its come to my mind what is originally Malaysian? and what is originally Indonesian?
    come on please dont bring up the matter before 1945 to claim as Indonesia…if Indonesian insist of this, we might have to read VOC (Vereinigde Oost Indisch Compagnie) documents or Volkstraad? no suppose to do so..why? because you Indonesian claimed that you hate the Dutch soooo much!

    Like

  204. @dolah Kurdis: coz we argue to find solutions. by doing so we will never find one…and the solution is all that matter, and we need it quick, fast, precise and can satisfy most (not all, coz never will) 🙂

    Like

  205. From the free online encyclopedia:

    Chauvinism is extreme and unreasoning partisanship on behalf of a group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice and hatred towards a rival group

    Who’s more likely to be called this on this discussion???

    @dolah
    If you read all thread concerning this discussions, you would surely know that there’s no race based on religion. It would be like Nazi way classifying Jewish as a race, when in fact they are religion group. So if your government definition of Malay is based on religion… well, that would put them on the same spot as Hitler himself.

    Like

  206. @triedtobehonest: jewish is religion? what about Judaism? a race? anyway have u find out the definitions of religion and faith? Coz obviously u donot know what are they…

    Like

  207. @ kamarul
    wow, encik Kamarul is really smart, I admire you, between fixing broken bones etc, you still have time to comment, your thinking is very clear.

    Like

  208. A-HA! I spot another classification error. There are only 2 “races” in the world defined by a religion. The “Jews” and the “Malays”. To set the record straight; Judaism is a religion, while Jews refer to the Israelites. Therefore, it is not technically correct to call Prophet Mohamed as a Jew, because he is an Israelite. He is a descendant of Moses.

    When we speak of the Christian “Jews” and the Hindu “Malays”, or the Indian Muslims, we refer to their religion as separate from their “race” or nationality. And the two are not really the same. Just like Angeline Jolie is described as a Buddhist American (or now, Cambodian). And therefore the two can NEVER be the same. As much as most people assume that “Malays” are Muslim, for lack of understanding.

    On the same line-of-thought, it is just as bad to say that ALL MUSLIMS are SUICIDE BOMBERS. See how ridiculously wrong information can be?

    I really abhor pre-conceived ideas on stereotyping. It causes confusion as well as creates extremely bad “blood” and animosities.

    Truly Asia Boleh 🙂

    Like

  209. @ardy: im doing ENT now, got very few patients in the ward. even the surgeons are playing ping-pong in the middle of the ENT Department lobby…so just imagine and believe it hehe 🙂

    Like

  210. Wah, ini sih kalau nggak distop nggak akan ada habisnya. Namanya juga api dalam sekam, dikipasi sedikit langsung nyala. Mudah-mudahan komentar-komentar yang ada di sini dapat menjadi masukan bagi masing-masing pihak – warga Indonesia dan Malaysia. Saya sendiri jadi paham bahwa tidak sepenuhnya kedua belah pihak salah dan juga tidak sepenuhnya kedua belah pihak benar.

    Dalam hal lagu Rasa Sayange, saya pikir-pikir, toh lagu yang dipakai pemerintah Malaysia dalam kampanye pariwisatanya adalah Rasa Sayang, bukan Rasa Sayange. Bukan berarti bangsa Indonesia kehilangan lagu itu kan, karena yang kita miliki dan dapat kita tunjukkan ke dunia adalah lagu Rasa Sayange. Kedengarannya sama, tapi rasanya tentu beda. Seperti makan Indomie yang dijual di Indonesia dan yang dijual di Malaysia – nama barang boleh sama, kurang lebih (soalnya saya belum pernah lihat produk yang dijual di Malaysia; Apa yang saya nyatakan lebih didasarkan pada komentar mereka yang sudah pernah mengonsumsinya), tapi rasanya (katanya) berbeda jauh.

    Hayo teman-teman, akur lah. Lebih baik bersatu-padu untuk kemudian maju daripada bercerai-berai untuk kemudian menjadi abu, betul?

    Wassalaam.

    PS. Teman-teman di Malaysia, maaf ya bila saya menulis dalam bahasa Indonesia. Kalau ada yang mau tanya artinya dalam bahasa Inggris, boleh kok kirim e-mail ke saya. Nanti akan saya artikan.

    Like

  211. @metty

    Wah, ga apa-apa mbak yu Metty pakai bahasa Indonesia. Lha wong kebanyakan orang malaysia ndengerin lagu indonesia, nonton sinetron indonesia. Padahal gue sendiri udah males nonton sinetron indonesia yang sering ga jelas ceritanya. Bahasa kita kan emang asal muasalnya berasal dari bahasa melayu. Sekarang kayanya sih bahasa sehari-hari kita yang gantian jadi bahasa sehari-hari disana. Percakapan pake bahasa gaul Betawi juga mulai sering didengar disebrang. Pasti ngerti deh….

    Tul tul mbak Metty, rasa supermie buatan gue ama buatan suami gue aja bisa beda rasa. Seringnya sih jadi gue yang bikinin buat suami, alasannya buatan gue lebih enak. Bilang aja males bikin sendiri…..

    @unspun

    Maaf-maaf nih, sekali iniiii aja gue pake bahasa indonesia.

    Like

  212. Dear Readers.

    I refer to the recent commotion in Indonesia with regards to Rasa Sayang song used to promote tourism in Malaysia. Both countries fail to see eyes to eye with regards to the song.

    Malaysia’s view is very simple and clear. It never claims to own the song. It does not know who creates such a catchy song. Malaysia until the commotion started did not know that some sections claimed that the song belongs to Indonesia. Malaysia uses the song as it is very popular folk song in the country. That is all.

    As such, Malaysia feels there is no need to ask Indonesia’s permission with regard to using the song. Malaysians sinply fail to see what the fuss is all about.

    Musics, cultural traditions, food are not restricted in one country. Beautiful musics will trancend boundary. I notice there are quite a number of Indonesian songs popular in Malaysia. And I was surprised that during my recent visit to Indonesia, I was approached by Indonesians asking about Siti Norhaliza and Anuar Zain.

    My point is that it is next to impossible to claim certain traditional heritages as belonging to us only. Take for example. Kuda kepang. It is very popular in Johor, Malaysia. It maybe originated from Jawa but now is also considered as heritage by Johor Govt. Patrotism is one thing. But certainly paranoid is another issue.

    What is exactly the issue. I believe it is deeper than that. Neighbours sometimes have problems. That is normal. But do discuss rationally. Indonesia is not happy among others about the alleged illtreatments of Indonesian workers in Malaysia, Pulau Sipadan and Ligitan, the perceived insult on the terminology “Indon”. alleged stealing Indonesian territory.

    Malaysia on the other hand is not happy with certain element in Indonesia using it is a punching back to achieve their political gain. Many Indonesian press potrays Malaysia as cruel to Indonesian workers. bUt they forgot to report about thousands of maid running away after carting the lady of the houses jewellery, not to mention rapes cases.

    Just as Indonesians hates the word “Indon”, Malaysians feel insulted with the word “Maling Sia”. I urged everybody stops the usage of words that insulted each other. Malaysians, now you know Indonesians hate the Word “indon”, please stop using the word. And Indonesians, I believe you also know is not nice to use the word “Maling Sia”.

    Both are sovereign countries. Both are equal. nO “adik”. no “abang”. No such thing as simply because you are smaller in size that you have to kowtow. No such thing to behave as the big brother simply because one is bigger.

    The respect is accorded, not forced on. And do stop the habit of showing which country contributes more, which country had better musics, which country is bigger, which country is more advanced. That is so petty. Both Malaysia and Indonesia has their plus points.

    Both countries contribute. Malaysia does not deny the contributrion of Indonesian workers in construction industry. And Indonesia also accepts that more than 1 millions of its citizens earn a living in Malaysia. Youngs Malaysians are crazy about Indonesian movie “Heart” while many Indonesians respect Dr Mahathir and are in awe at Putrajaya.

    Do realize that sometimes the argument that we have are actually no argument at all. Just that we see things differently.

    Like

  213. Dear Vic. Kyle.

    Many thanks for your request. However, I was reminded that this is not the proper forum for that. However, you are wrong by saying that is a sensitive issue. There is nothing sensitive about it .

    Perhps you can initiate a forum on that. And I would be happy to participate.

    Like

  214. My first comment here. Things are getting more intersting now

    found this one while surfing http://www.detiknews.com/indexfr.php?url=http://www.detiknews.com/index.php/detik.read/tahun/2007/bulan/10/tgl/30/time/094956/idnews/846289/idkanal/10

    So apparently, rasa sayang song and also Burung Kakatua and Chan Mali chan are copyrighted by the Malaysian Government,
    official site here
    http://www.heritage.gov.my/kekkwa/index.php?bahan=viewbudaya.php?id=62

    here’ s the list:
    http://www.heritage.gov.my/kekkwa/viewjadual.php?id=3119

    and another one:
    http://www.heritage.gov.my/kekkwa/viewjadual.php?id=1970

    Now, I’m not versed in this whole copyright thing so i don’t know the meaning of this. Is this means that only malaysia government, or you can say malaysia, can use these songs and the lyrics? or perhaps only these particular versions?

    Like

  215. @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne:
    I don’t think our government ever claimed that Batik, Keris, Angklung (even Rasa Sayang) were from Malaysia. They simply says it were all from Malays, which includes all ethnic cultures in Nusantara. (BTW, what’s Angklung? DON’T LAUGH!!) However, by the way the constitution define “Malays”, no wonder everyone thinks Malaysia owns it.

    For your reference if you want to know more about Angklung:
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angklung)

    Quote from Jakarta Post:
    “In Malaysia, the music is extensively promoted and the angklung itself is used in the country’s Truly Asia tourism campaign,” Budi said.
    He said universities in Malaysia had conducted research on angklung synthesizers. The country is also trying to obtain a design patent for the angklung, much to the annoyance of Sundanese communities who have urged the Indonesian government to hit back and have been making every effort to demonstrate the angklung is a Sundanese instrument.
    http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp?fileid=20070921.T01

    Quote from Antara:
    “Pasca kasus sengketa Pulau Sipadan-Ligitan, klaim Malaysia atas batik, angklung, dan budaya Dayak, dan juga kiriman asap kebakaran hutan dari Indonesia ke Malaysia memang menjadi ujian yang berat bagi hubungan baik kedua negara.”
    http://www.antara.co.id/arc/2007/10/28/rasa-sayange-antara-indonesia-dan-malaysia/

    I believe sundanese ppl absolutely have no issue to share the the beauty of Angklung to others (not only to Malaysian), but further attempt to claim it as someones culture without even mention the origin of Angklung or the worst case trying to obtain a design patent for the angklung that will be a different story, that Hurts…

    Peace 🙂

    Like

  216. Indonesia’s claim of Rasa Sayange is on the capacity of a COUNTRY. Logically, Maluku became part of Indonesia only in the 1950s. Long before that (as long as the Portuguese time in Malacca), Rasa Sayang was a Nusantara Song, sung by people when the country called Indonesia was not even born yet.

    So to claim Rasa Sayang as Indonesian’s own, is not wise, and culturally, not correct. In fact this could offend other Nusantara countries as well. Singapore, Brunei, Thailand and Philippines, also Malaysia. What would these countries think about Indonesia’s claim and selfishness?

    Rasa Sayang, if memory serves, was originated by the Portuguese and made popular by the Ambonese. See the word “Nona”. Its Portuguese. Portuguese colonized Malacca (1511) and Ambon (1526). If there is anyone more rightful to claim the copyright, its the Portuguese. Not by Nusantara folks.

    In the meantime, you can use that song where you see fit. Claiming the copyright for a folkfore song is utterly stupid. No country has ever claimed exclusive ownership of folkfore song except Indonesia! Even the US doesnt claim the Happy Birthday’s copyright. Its TOO DAMN EMBARRASING!

    ;D

    Like

  217. @shanghai: Its TOO DAMN EMBARRASING! DAMN EMBARRASING!
    @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne:
    They simply says it were all from Malays, which includes all ethnic cultures in Nusantara. (BTW, what’s Angklung? DON’T LAUGH!!)

    I agree with you… particularly when a COUNTRY like Malaysia trying to obtain copyright for Batik, then a patent for Angklung where even ur ppl doesn’t even know what Anglkung is 🙂
    Its TOO DAMN EMBARRASING!

    I think this is what triggered our Indonesian fellows to claim the Songs…

    Like

  218. I would STRONGLY recommending any new reader/commentator/debater to read this thread from head to toe first. It really help us from repeating the same argument over and over again, and im telling u most of us are not interested in doing so plus its very tiring. BTW any new argument will be most welcomed. thanx….cheers 🙂

    Like

  219. a Vic.Kyle.Ellane so u are malaysian.Sorry Bro or Sis. I’d better go.. tired already…
    Kind of EMBARASSED when “people” never argue the ownership of
    1.’ I saw my mommy kissing Santa Claus”
    2. ‘Jinggle Bell’
    3. ’25 Disember is always Christmas Day for the world”
    4. “Happy Birthday To You”
    TQ mr unspun for allowing me to express my thought.
    Sincerely yours
    Dolah Kurdis (a Malaysian )

    Like

  220. Memang benar adanya…saya sependapt dengan curahan hati anda yang isinya….”…tidak ada yang dapat kami banggakan dari negeri kami ‘indonesia”…penduduknya?monumennya?borobudurnya?balinya?tsunami di aceh???puncak jaya???…..BENAR!maturnuwun sanget untuk mengingatkan kembali..mengapa?karena saya menyadari..tak ada gunanya membanggakan sesuatu yang tidak abadi sifatnya…segala Sesuatu yang kami miliki disini cepat atau lambat akan sirna. adakah sesuatu yang abadi di dunia ini?…..yang pasti, saya tidak tahu jawabannya,hanya Sang Pencipta Alam Semesta itu sendiri yang ada dalam keabadian.

    maaf, sebenarnya saya tidak ingin menyampaikan apapun di forum ini ..apa yang telah saya sampaikan sebelumnya maupun yang akan saya sampaikan sekalipun , hanya akan menunjukkan suatu pembuktian bahwa betapa bodohnya saya di hadapan anda semua…oleh karena itu saya tidak akan menyampaikan sesuatupun…tp perkenankanlah saya untuk memberikan tausiyah untuk diri saya sendiri sebagai pengingat diri dalam kalbu dan jiwa sehingga dapat berguna dalam menyikapi segala sesuatu dengan arif dan bijak.

    SESEORANG TIDAK AKAN DITIMPA MUSIBAH MELAINKAN APA YANG TELAH DITETAPKAN ALLAH BAGINYA.SEKALIPUN SEMUA MAKHLUK BERSUNGGUH2 UNTUK MEMBERIKAN MANFAAT KEPADA SESEORANG YANG MANA ALLAH TIDAK MENETAPKAN TAKDIR BAGINYA UNTUK MENDAPATKAN MANFAAT,MAKA SUNGGUH MEREKA TIDAK SANGGUP MELAKUKANNYA.

    SEGALA SESUATU DI ALAM INI TERJADI KRN KEHENDAK-NYA.LEMAH DAN KUAT TERJADI KRN KEHENDAK ALLAH.KALAU SEKIRANYA SEMUA MAKHLUK BERKUMPUL UNTUK MENOLAK KEHENDAK ALLAH .SUNGGUH MEREKA TAKKAN SANGGUP MELAKUKANNYA.DAN KALAU SEKIRANYA MEREKA SEMUA BERKEHENDAK UNTUK MELAKUKAN SESUATU SEDANGKAN ALLAH TIDAK MENGHENDAKINYA ,MAKA SUNGGUH MEREKA TAKKAN SANGGUP MELAKUKANNYA.
    “JIKA ALLAH MENIMPAKAN SESUATU KEMUDARATAN KEPADAMU, MAKA TIDAK ADA YANG DAPAT MENGHILANGKANNYA KECUALI DIA.DAN JIKA ALLAH MENGHENDAKI KEBAIKAN BAGI KAMU,MAKA TIDAK ADA YANG DAPAT MENOLAK KARUNIA-NYA (YUSUF:107).

    “APABILA ALLAH MENGHENDAKI KEBURUKAN TERHADAP SUATU KAUM,MAKA TIDAK ADA YANG DAPAT MENOLAKNYA DAN SEKALI2 TIDAK ADA PELINDUNG BAGI MEREKA SELAIN DIA (AR R’D:11).

    SEGALA SESUATU BERJALAN DENGAN TAKDIR &KEHENDAK ALLAH.KEHENDAKNYA PASTI TERJADI,TIDAK ADA KEHENDAK BAGI HAMBA2NYA MELAINKAN APA YANG ALLAH KEHENDAKI bagi mereka.Apa yang Dia kehendaki bagi hamba2Nya, pasti terjadi & apa saja yang tidak Dia kehendaki ,tidak akan terjadi.

    ALLAH BERKEHENDAK TERHADAP SEGALA PERBUATAN YANG BAIK DAN BURUK HAMBA2NYA .SESEORANG TIDAK BERIMAN KEPADA ALLAH MELAINKAN ENGAN KEHENDAKNYA DAN SESEORANG TIDAK MENJADI KAFIR,MELAINKAN DENGAN KEHENDAKNYA.

    DENGAN MENGIMANINYA,MENJADIKAN SESEORANG RIDHA TERHADAP SEGALA MUSIBAH YANG MENIMPANYA.BERSERAH DIRI TERHADAP TAKDIRNYA ,SABAR TEHADAP SEGALA MARABAHAYA YANG MENIMPA DAN MERASA KUAT DI DALAM KEBENARAN SERTA TIDAK TAKUT TERHADAP CELAAN ORANG YANG MENCELA,KARENA AJAL DAN REJKAI HANYA ADA DI TANGANNYA.
    TIDAK ADA SEORANGPUN YANG DAPAT MEMBERIKAN KEMUDARATAN DAN MANFAAT KEPADA ORANGLAIN MELAINKAN DENGAN IZIN ALLAH.IA TETAP KUAT DI DALAM MENGHADAPI SEGALA KESUKARAN ,PENDERITAAN DAN BERBAGAI FITNAH. IA JUGA TETAP BERSUNGGUH SUNGGUH DI DALAM MENGERJAKAN AMAL2 SALEH.JUGA TAKUT DAN MENJAGA DIRI DARI KEHIDUPAN AKHIR YANG BURUK,KARENA SUNGGUH SESEORANG TIDAK MENGETAHUI TAKDIR APA YANG DITENTUKAN BAGINYA .KEHIDUPAN KITA SEKARANG BELUM SAMA SEPERTI AKHIR KEHIDUPAN KITA AKHIRNYA.
    WALLAHU A’LAM.

    MUDAH2AN INI BISA MENJADI TAUSIYAH AGAR DIRI INI MENGHARAP TERUS BERADA TETAP DI JALANNYA YANG LURUS.AMIN

    Like

  221. Dear dolah Kurdis ,
    actually, “Happy Birthday To You” is patented! It’s not a folksong although it’s the most popular English song. I read it in the paper last year & found the links here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You
    http://www.warnerchappell.com/wcm_2/song_search/song_detail/songview_2.jsp?esongId=126621000&view=fulllyrics
    And if I’m not wrong, all the tittles you’d mentioned are not folksongs and were patented too.
    It brought up the tittle “Auld Lang Syne” in my mind and found that this is a folksong which was never claimed to belongs to England or at least England didn’t ban anyone from using it too promote something. Bet you didn’t know it’s from the Scotts. Try see:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Lang_Syne
    Well, luckily Rasa Sayang (e, hey, etc…) has not been translated to too many languages or else this embarrassment would go worldwide. HA HA HA.
    * As much as I hate to quote a single source only, especially from wikipedia, it’s the most convenient! Cheers \(^_^)/

    Dear Kamarul, u must be kidding, it’s over 200 comments, I’ll faint going through the whole thing!

    For the benefits of all, try this link first: my first comment is in here too :p
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/05/10/should-unspun-or-shouldnt-unspun/
    Then click on the link in the opening by Unspun – a comment by Michael Chick, ignore the rest.
    Then the extended explanation in:
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/20/where-do-our-ancestors-come-from/ or (it’s the same)
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/02/rasa-not-so-sayang/#comment-26173

    Now a bit of Law regarding the issue:
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/02/rasa-not-so-sayang/#comment-25449
    And then this one for some discussion about folklores ownership: scroll down for answers
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/10/rasa-this/#comment-25950
    I just have to include this, my summary half way:
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/02/rasa-not-so-sayang/#comment-26526

    A fair quote here:
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/23/rasa-not-so-sayang-2-our-different-viewpoints/

    And the summary,
    https://theunspunblog.com/2007/10/26/out-of-step/

    Now you can come back and comment. Cheers \(^_^)/
    *I have to skip some Indonesian comments (coz difficult for me to understand) & might have missed some. But I think I covered most related one.

    Dear doubledice,
    For your point, please see above links…
    Then hope you understand what I try to say:
    Malaysia, with it’s population majority are “Malays” which somehow includes all Malay(as recognised by ancient Western powers to include brown coloured skin locals that speaks Bahasa Malaysia(Melayu) and Bahasa Indonesia) therefore shared many similar cultures with our neighbours in the “Nusantara”. What in the link you gave me were the Malaysian versions copyrighted to promote Malaysia which is no less to describe the Malaysian cultures. You sure don’t want your Indonesian Tourist Department to use Malaysian versions (not to say they will ever but just in case the mixed it up) to promote your country, don’t you.
    Again I stress, they never say it originated from Malaysia!! But because Malaysia is Truly Asia, it blended everything from the region and that are well describing the people in this country. Why didn’t you highlight “Tian-Mi-Mi” in the site which is a Taiwanese score.
    I hate to defend the ministry but that part I think it’s true, the part that is bothering everybody is that they conveniently forgotten to mention where all these things come from.

    Dear Corlene, thanks for the link.

    Dear Shamshul anuar,
    I don’t think I want to start that unless Unspun likes too, it’s his blog leh!! It will be another heated debate if more Chinese readers see it. I’m sure Unspun & Michael will have lots of contribution in this Malays Special Rights issue. I’m too young to put my 2 cents on this, he he he. I’d already initiated one, have you put your view there?

    Did everyone missed my comment on October 30th, 2007 at 4:43 am, how come no reply one?

    BTW, Unpsun, with so much written and discussed regarding this issue, I think you could start compiling everyting and but it into publish: RASA SAYANG (E or Hey): When a culture divided by borders. Maybe can make big money :-p

    Like

  222. Am I registered as a spammer by Askimet? My entry blocked again? I’m no not and know none terrorist!! Uspun, be my lawyer?

    Like

  223. Dear dolah Kurdis ,
    actually, “Happy Birthday To You” is patented! It’s not a folksong although it’s the most popular English song.

    Yeap Vic the term “English” is no one to argue from Australia to N Zealand. or from the UK to USA. It is a clear cut. Eventhough is is not from England.Here we still debate on the definition of Nusantara and the Malays…

    Like

  224. @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne: hehe 🙂 yeah im just kidding coz i know ppl like u will make it seriously and started to make multiple links to other comments…salute u for that and hey thanks, uve made my job easier (really busy for that coz got somebody dying in here) Cheers 🙂

    Like

  225. Even national anthem they steal from our “terang bulan”?
    Who can believe that rasa sayange is theirs
    ha..ha..ha..
    who is the real thief?
    They think here Indonesian only pembantu rumah..
    sorry bro..
    almost 200 thousand Indonesian expatrite here have to cover “the malays (read: malas)

    Like

  226. It is strange that I may not believe my school text book. I believe the truth not the text. I dont always believe the text.
    I read at least 5 books just to find out the truth about the Indonesia’s Comunist party’s “coup d’etat” on October 1, 1965.
    I read 12 books until I believe that Jesus did not die on the cross.
    I read more book to understant that the evolution theory is not correct.

    Why cant I believe, while the Malaysians believe the “Rasa Sayang” song is theirs just because they sing the song every week in their school? why? why?

    I still dont see any Malaysian share their version about the meaning of NUSANTARA. Proofing that the term is INDONESIAN.

    The term is not DUCTH, not PORTUGUESE, nor MALAY.
    Proof it if I’m wrong…

    Like

  227. @Tommy: and i didnt read any goddamn textbook to show to u that ur 7 points argument is just crap that can be thrown into laut jawa without any hesitation…no offense but i just wana tell u that its not how many info/facts u can get but what matters most is how ur brain processes tis info/facts into some usable arguments…FYI this basic process of human being is called THINKING…No hard feelings ya 🙂

    again im asking u a simple question, who said that malaysia claimed the Rasa Sayange song belongs to Malaysia? fact1) we never claimed it; fact2) we use Rasa Sayang HEY not Rasa SayangE

    so tommy u think, everything which is not malaysian, its indonesian? now this is really a bad thinking…u gave me a definition of NUSANTARA before and some examples right? i totally turned ur definition into trash simply becoz ur examples didnot fit…now if u can think, is NUSANTARA word is indonesian?

    THINKING is the basic process of human being, please dont forget this 🙂

    Like

  228. MC: Dear Tommy Joe,

    “…I read 12 books until I believe that Jesus did not die on the cross….”
    MC: Obviously, those are not Archaeologically sound books. He did die on the Cross. It’s the Constantine additions which made it incorrect. The resurrection was added. Constantine lived in the second century. And the additions were made then to combine all religions under the Roman Empire to form the new “Roman Catholic” religion. Here are a few books which might add to your knowledge on this. “The Complete Gnostics Bible”, “The Book Your Church Doesn’t want you to Read”, “Jesus, the Missing Years”, “The Mary Conspiracy”, “Holy Blood, Holy Grail”, “The Bloodline of Jesus”, “The secret of the Templars”, “The Code of the Templars”, “Opus Dei”, “Similarities between Jesus and Buddha” and so on just to get you started.
    BTW, Dan Brown’s screenplay/ movie “The Davincci Code” is pure fiction. But it was based on the other research books which provided the details. After you have read the above booklist, you will fully understand where Dan Brown derived his inspiration from.

    Also, here are a few documentaries which will further your info on these matters; all produced by the BBC, and deemed unfit for Asian consumption for fear of mass disturbance. They are, “The Real Family of Jesus”, “The Secret Family of Jesus”, “The Lost Tomb of Jesus”, “The Story of God”, “The Genesis Story”. These are the few just to get you started.

    “…I read more book(s) to understant that the evolution theory is not correct…”
    MC: Charles Darwin himself admitted that there were flaws in “The Origin of Species”. You will find it in his end notes. If his theory be fully correct, there should have been found and infinite number of species between dinosaur and birds; for example. There is none. However, it does not mean his theory is completely wrong. It just has large holes in it. Unfortunately, no one can come up with an alternative theory which is bullet-proof. This unfortunately, includes the “Creation Story”, which was added by Constantine in the 2nd Century as well. Go read “The Dead Sea Scrolls Conspiracy” for a more indepth understanding on this. All religious writings made after the second century is flawed because it was all based on Constantines distortions. Read the “Gilgamesh” epic and you will find the famous flood story. Research “Horus” and you will find the “Virgin Birth” and so on. These pre-date Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and were carved in the Pyramids. Hence hold more Archaeological truth in them than the latter, who copied the stories 6,000 years later. This is unfortunate. 😦

    Happy reading Tommy 🙂

    Like

  229. as my self I never claim that meaningless Rasa Sayange is a Malaysian Song.
    MTD Malaysian Tourist Departement also never claimed that is a Malaysian Song! they claimed Rasa Sayang Hey is the song from NUSANTARA. NUSA is Nesos. MTD only state that no one could STOP them from using that stooopid song.
    The one and only claimed the song is theirs is Indonesian!!!!
    Still to my point of view the is no bahasa Indonesia (sound so artificial). Like there is no American Language,Australian Language or New Zealand Language or Britian Language. But there is English Language and there is Bahasa Melayu. No such things as bahasa Brunei, Bahasa Singapura,Bahasa Malaysia, Bahasa Indonesia…as Kamarul syggested “THINK” do not rely on your thext book mr Tommy Joe.

    Like

  230. saya bersetuju dengan KD, mengapa kita yang mempunyai 240 juta penduduk dikedua dua negara ingin bercakaran dan ejek mengejek antara satu sama lain hanya kerana lagu rasa sayang nge or hei itu. sepatutnya kedua kita memikirkan untuk terus memajukan dua negara serumpun ini. bayangkan jika malaysia dan indonesia maju dari segi ekonomi sains teknologi pendidikan dengan sumber alam dan human resources yang ada ,kita mampu menjadi negara yang kuat, moden dan di hormati seluruh dunia . sepatutnya kita berfikir bagaimana untuk mempereratkan lagi silaturahhim anatara dua negara dan memikirkan bagaimana untuk menghapuskan penggunaan passport agar kedua rakyat negara dapat kunjung mengunjungi tanpa memerlukan passport sialan seperti yang di amalkan kesatuan eropah. sebenarnya kami amat berbangga apabila indonesia mengumumkan akan membina jembatan merentangi selat sunda menghubungkan jawa dan sumatera. mana tau selepas itu jambatan atau undrsea tunnel pula di bina merentangi selat melaka dan menghubungkan semenanjung malaysia dengan sumatera. perkara sebegini yang perlu kita fikirkan dan bukannya memikirkan masalah remeh temeh lagu siapa yang punya, batik di maling atau satay kami yang punya. ini semua menjadikan kita bangsa serumpun nusantara ini berckaran tidak henti henti . ada orang lain cukup gembira sekiranya satu rumpun ini bergaduh sesama sendiri. itu lah yang mereka idam idamkan kerana jika kita bercakaran sepanjang masa mereka yang mendapat untungnya. itu lah yang mereka harap kan sangat . cukup lah tu , kita jangan guna lagu rasa sayang untuk tujuan promosi ,itu lagu orang maluku di indonesia dan kita boleh buat lagu lain. batik , satay dan lain2 itu boleh diselesai secara aman tanpa perlu menganyang sesama sendiri dan menegakkan siapa yang betul , siapa yang lebih bertamadun dan siapa yang lebih kaya budayanya. kita perlukan satu sama lain . orang indonesia ingin maju dan menjadi kaya raya, begitu juga dengan kita. jika dua-dua kaya rakyat yang mendapat manafaatnya. jadi saya rasa kita semua perlu stop dari ejek mengejek cela mencela antara satu sama lain. jadi lah rakyat yang aktif, progresif , kreatif untuk memajukan negara masing masing semuga kita bangsa serumpun ini tidak di perkotak katikkan oleh bangsa asing yang hanya menanti untuk mengambil kesempatan terhadap dua negara yang kaya dengan pelbagai sumber pemberian Allah SWT ini.

    Unspun: Like the way your thoughts are heading. Idealistic but yes, if we would only stop sweating the small stuff, there is so much we all can do together. However, I am pessimistic such a love-in would happen anytime soon.

    Like

  231. DeaGle
    sekarang Rakyat Malaysia Malaysian citizen
    see the name
    Tarmimi Siregar, Maria menado, Daeng Anduring Bin Daeng Marewang, Ahmad Khir Hartoyo, Bayu Radjikin, Adri Simatupang, well need I say more.
    I as a Malaysian would say it is not Malaysian song! but who could stop Malaysian from using the song?

    Like

  232. @DeaGLe: i copy the text from the website u gave here ya

    Hak Cipta Terpelihara : Kementerian Kebudayaan Kesenian & Warisan Malaysia (KEKKWA)
    Tidak dibenarkan mengeluar “mana-mana bahagian dalam audio” ini dalam apa jua bentuk (elektronik/mekanikal) tanpa permohonan bertulis daripada KEKKWA

    did u see the words in brackets? it mean “any part of the AUDIO”. now letme explain this misunderstanding brought by u. the audio files were created by the KEKKWA, so its reasonable to disallowed other ppl to copy the AUDIO file without permission lah. theres no such thing of claiming the song belongs to malaysia. “originality of the song” and “the permission of copying the audio file” have no synonymous meaning lah man

    clear example here: those indonesian singers eg SO7(which i dislike due to its jiwangis nature hehe 🙂 ). now they publish their album here through local company. but then when the company say others cannot copy any part from the published album, then does this means the songs belong to the company? NO, the album belongs to the company but of course the songs belong to the indonesian band SO7 lah man. got the point? 🙂

    Like

  233. hmmm… after reading this thread from the beginning to the end, i think i can (imperfectly) summarize the situation to a much simpler conversation:

    Indonesian 1: “I think there is this Problem Z, please elaborate”
    Malaysian 1: “HUH??? you’re stupid, its not a problem at all! you’re pathetic, use your brain, man!”

    Indonesian 1: “But but… there IS a problem, in fact i think it’s a chronic problem”
    Malaysian 2: “this is my explanation, YYYYZZZZ, there!”
    Indonesian 1:”I disagreee, becoz ABCCC”

    Malaysian 1:”ah you’re just jealous with our economic success!”
    Indonesian 1: “(whaa..?)”

    Indonesian 2: “Malingsiah!”
    Malaysian 1: “see?”
    Indonesian 2:”Malingsiah!”
    Malaysian 1: “You’re stupid, poor bastard!”
    Indonesian 2: “no, YOU are stupid”
    Malaysian 1: “no, YOU are!”

    (…continuously to eternity… sheesh what do you expect, these last two probly only know those vocabs :p )

    As for now, im starting to understand malaysian (err… malaysian 2, at least 🙂 ) points of view, even though i dont necessarily agree with them.

    But at least, by knowing your side of opinion, i can say it doesnt hurt as much anymore.

    I really think, we (the people of the two countries) need to discuss about lotsa things, probly pathetic to some, maybe important to others, agree on some things, agree to disagree on lotsa other things,

    There WILL be risks for insult game to happen, many tu quoque’s, ad hominems, and many logical fallacies, but to be honest, it wont make me disheartened.

    lets move on.

    Like

  234. @Bonar: A great summary o much of the disagreements on this thread. But I’ve seen an evolution of attitudes since the initial comments (so long ago, it seems). To me the discussion started with antagonistic views with people really hating each other. And then after they argued o much with each other they begin to see that the other side has a valid point of view and begin to respect and, I suspect, even to like each other beneath all that banter.

    Like you, I’m not disheartened. In fact I’m positively encouraged by the fact that blogs can bring people together in strange ways 🙂

    Like

  235. Read some about wawasan Nusantara:
    http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawasan_Nusantara

    @Kamarul said:1. um negeri Sabah dan Sarawak di Pulau Borneo nusantara juga? Sabah dan Sarawak kan Malaysia? jadi Malaysia bukan nusantara? Kalo Malaysia bukan nusantara, Sabah dan Sarawak juga bukan nusantara. jadi kalimantan juga bukan nusantara kan? jadi indonesia nusantara, kalimantan nusantara? soalan2 ini bukan untuk mempersoalkan atau menyentuh sensitiviti mana2 negara tetapi untuk membuktikan bahawa kenyataan Tommy tidak persis, goyah dan boleh ditolak dengan mudah.

    Kamarul. Seperti saya sudah jelaskan, Nusantara adalah kumpulan pulau (nusa/nesos) yang berada di antar 2 benua dan 2 samudera. Artinya Nusantara itu Indonesia. Borneo, jika ia berdiri sendiri, tidak terletak antara 2 samudera dan 2 benua. Begitu pun jika Sumatera sendiri, Jawa sendiri atau Celebes sendiri. Tapi jika semua pulau-pulau itu bersatu maka kumpulan pulau-pulau itulah yang memenuhi arti terminologi NUSANTARA.

    Nah, jika Borneo (alone) bukanlah NUSANTARA, apa lagi Sabah dan Serawak. So, NUSANTARA adalah INDONESIA. Sabah Serawak, apalagi Malaysia, bukanlah NUSANTARA. PAham ya?

    @michael chick: It is not the place to discuss about Jesus, but If you read “Holy Blood Holy Grail” until the last page, maybe you will say differently….
    Read Ahmed Deedat’s “The ChoiCe”, “Misquoting Jesus” etc.
    Tou can visit http://www.pakdenono.com for some enlightments

    @dolah kurdis:I am about to stop now you really make me come back with your narrow minded. It never cross your mind that Malaysia consist of Bugis,Minang,Jawa,Melayu,Banjar,Bawaean,Arab,India,Chinese,Japanese, so so narrow monded you are.

    Well, wide-minded dollah. You heve gone out of context. Nusantara is a matter of geography not ethnicity. Malaysia may heve all the Indonesian ethnics, but it doesn’t make Malaysia can call itself NUSANTARA.

    My opinion: Malaysia must be the most uncreative nation. They take things from other countries, change them a little bit, call it with different name, and make them theirs.

    Example:
    Take lagu “Terang Bulan” from Indonesia, change it a bit, call it “Negaraku”

    Take “Star Spangled Banner” from the US, change the star into sun crescent, call it “Jalur Gemilang”.

    Hehehehehehehe……..

    Like

  236. @Tommy: now let us see again ur comment above, its clear that ur own statement is contradicting with each other man. at first u explained that nusantara is a geographic definition. but then, u said malaysia is not nusantara and indonesia is nusantara (u went out of ur definition and putting political view as ur agenda). borneo whether it fulfills the definition of nusantara does not depends on whether any of its region belongs to certain nation, its a clear cut double standard here man.

    if borneo is not nusantara, kalimantan also must not be nusantara. if kalimantan is part of indonesia, then indonesia can never be nusantara becoz of kalimantan. if the definition of nusantara is geographic position then u must accept this. if u donot accept this, it means ur definition of nusantara is not geographical-based but only to fulfill ur political agenda right? enlighten urself first before u enlighten others, cheers man 🙂

    Like

  237. after I checked the KBBI (Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia) well written in Indonesia, published in Indonesia, for Indonesian
    Page 789
    nu.san.ta.ra n sebutan (nama) bagi seluruh kepulauan Indonesia
    so no wonder mr Tommy Joe……

    Like

  238. unspun, yes i agree you. with the look of it it wont happened at our time but we must go towards it right now. this bickering of nusanatara, rasa sayang and other petty thing has to be stopped . we know now you dont like to be called Indo… ( i refused to put n there) then we malaysian should stop calling them by that name. you said rasa sayang song is yours .. so we should not use that song to promote malaysia. we have many composers who can compose new better song to suit the promotional activities. i sometime feel our goverment officials is too much defending unecessary things but on indonesian side you sometimes are too sensitive and make the small issues becoming very big issue. we people on both side, politicians alike should sit down and trash up things through more dialogue, communications, musyawarah and politicians should prevent saying unpleasant things that make the other side unhappy. in fact you shuld also encourage your people or the bloggers to stop calling us Malingsia or other bad names. we are sensitive human being too.

    Like

  239. @ralph: Er, I’m Malaysian. But been staying here for over 10 years so empathize with the Indonesian point of view. Agree if Indonesians do not like to be called Indon, Malaysians should stop doing so, even they do not see anything wrong with that. And also agree Indonesians should raise above feelings of being slighted and refrain from calling Malaysia/ns names, tempting as it may be.

    Like

  240. gak malu tuuuh nyuri…nyuri….mau untung yaaaaaaa? dasar malingsia …sadar…wey… tapi mendingan kita berdamai deh and kembalikan deh semua that have been stolen..dimaaafin kok….tapi klo gak sadar…kita akan bertindak…awas…awas warga indonesia itu banyak lho kalah lah pasti…. dasar maling sia pencuri… tak berpendidikan

    Like

  241. iya , buk ina buk yati, kami tidak berpendidilan. negara kami tak ada sekolah , tak ada universiti, ngga ada college tetapi kenapa yek ramai banget anak2 muda indonesia belajar dan mencari sesuap nasi di negara kami. orang tidak berpendidikan kok boleh mengajar dan memberi makan kepada orang terpelajar bijaksana seperi sedara2 buk ina, yanti . kok kenapa tidak dibangun ribuan pulau2 cantik dan dijadikan pusat pelancongan di sekitar negara kamu sehingga pulau kecil di sabah itu setelah di jaga rapi dan di bangun oleh orang tidak berpelajaran ini baru kamu menyibuk mengata yang itu kamu punya . kami bukan nyuri buk kami cuma ambil benda yang tak terpakai oleh kamu kerana kami ini bodoh tidak berpendidikan. jangan marah2 bu nanti cepat tua. salam sayang dan permisi dan orang tidak berpelajaran ini ya buk. ampun maaf dari orang tidak berpendidikan ini ya buk.

    Like

  242. Diadjeng Ina Diadjeng Yanti
    there you go mr @ralph!!
    kita orang Malaysia memang maling. Sering mencuri, tak pernah sekolah, malah buanyak sekali melakukan kriminal di seluruh Nusantara milik Indonesia semuanya.
    Buanyak sekali warga malingsia yang datang berobat di Indonesia yang semuanya puas pelayanan spesialis rumah sakit korban lelaki.
    Menteri kami semuanya Menteri Semak Belukar, tentara kami itu namanya lasykar basah kuyup, kalau “push up” kami bilang setubuh dengan bumi. Kalau berjalan di tempat kami bilang “hentak-hentak bumi”…

    Like

  243. ?????? haiya why everybody started to talk in bahasa indonesia? pls dont continue this, i dont understand a damn thing over here ma…anyway bahasa indonesia is actually bahasa melayu right, how come can call it bahasa indonesia? got american language, australian language meh?

    malays are only minority in indonesia. so majority of indonesians are javanese, bataknese etc why they talk bahasa melayu and called it bahasa indonesia? oh yeah, maybe we malays, stole bahasa indonesia (ie name of a river in indonesia? sure meh? the river was first named and the first malay borned stole it from the river?) and from it, we come up with our own bahasa melayu, and this give total authority to indonesian to turn it into bahasa indonesia. lastly accusing we as the thieves…

    NOW…the above comments are abit harsh, but um for me, im not in the policy of continuing to do so…why? coz evrybody can come up wit this even my 10 year old nephew can, so why are we called adult? got my point?

    Like

  244. @All of you:

    You guys are full of passion and that’s a very good thing. But sometimes the arguments being forwarded do wander into crooked thinking territory. I’ve posted something here that I think would help you get a more fulfilling experience in your discussions. Now, if someone goes off tangent you can name the dishonest trick being employed and know exactly what to do. Enjoy:)

    Like

  245. @Kamarul.
    About Bahasa Indonesia…
    Yes… Bahasa Indonesia (which now we can just call Bahasa, the world will know it means Bahasa Indonesia, not Bahasa Malayu) sounds much alike Malay. But as the time goes on, both language have grown seperatedly.

    Bahasa (Indonesia) has been enriched by other languages, International languages( English, Dutch, Potuguese, Arabic, Indian, Chinese, etc) and traditional languages (Java, Batak, Sunda, Bali, Ambon, Palembang, etc).

    So Bahasa Indonesia is not purely Malay anymore, that’s why we don’t call it Malay. We call it Bahasa Indonesia as Indonesia’s official national language, that is used in formal speaking throughout the country.
    Meanwhile the traditional language still widely used in daily informal speaking.

    Now the international community have accept that the two languages are different, just as the different between Arabic and Kurd or between Mandarin and Cantonese.

    And it is internationally accepted that Indonesian language is adressed as “Bahasa Indonesia” or just “Bahasa”, and Malay/Malaysian language as “Malay”.

    The separated developments of the two languages (Malay and Bahasa) have given different quality to both languages. My australian friend learnt Bahasa in his school and his college. And when he heard Malay, he said he like Bahasa better, because both languages have different taste in his ears.

    Aculturation is common to all languages in the world. If you, MR Kamarul, says that Bahasa is the same as Malay, you should visit Indonesia. You will hear that people here speak absolutely diferent from you.

    I, two years ago visited your KL. I hardly understand the Malay language so I prefer English to speak to the Malays. How can you say Bahasa is the same as Malay?

    In the Malay’s benefit, I think Indonesian people conserve Malay language better than the Malaysian. Because in Indonesia, English is not so favoured as it is in Malaysia.

    We never accuse Malaysian steal our language(s). We know we have better language. It is Bahasa Indonesia or you can just say BAHASA, and that also means Bahasa Indonesia. (“,)

    Like

  246. @Tommy: FYI bahasa melayu in malaysia is also called bahasa. my point here is that even though bahasa indonesia is only based on bahasa melayu, and it had underwent major changes by cultural influences but basically its bahasa melayu. i know bahasa melayu and bahasa indonesia have alot of differences, no need to go to indonesia, i can even hear it here…

    my point here, although it had many differences, does this give right to rebadge bahasa melayu as bahasa indonesia. simple analogy herelah…
    we do know british english, american english, canadian english and australian english do have differences on their on, thanks to the cultural influences. but do they renamed english language as american language, canadian language or australian language? No, becoz they dont have any right to do so.

    of course uguys cannot say the malays stealed bahasa indonesia and make it bahasa melayu. bahasa indonesia itself is based on bahasa melayu, its bahasa melayu first then bahasa indonesia was created. logical thinking wise, the malays can say indonesian stealed it from us and say its bahasa indonesia, but fortunately the malays didnt and we dont have any intention to do so…

    now compare these 2 issues, bahasa melayu and rasa sayang hey. language is far more important than a song, all the songs, cultures etc, even the identity of each nation is based on the language…indonesians comfortably fitnah the malaysians for stealing their culture (by which uguys didnt prove it) and the malays didnt even started to say uguys were stealing bahasa melayu….

    to be fair, if uguys wanted the malaysian to admit that the Rasa sayange song belongs to indonesia (not only originated from Maluku) then the indonesians must reciprocate by admitting that its not bahasa indonesia, its bahasa melayu… No hard feelings, Peace man 🙂

    Like

  247. Kamarul,
    But, I thought MC said that Malay are actually originally come from Jambi? If we use the same analogy as Rasa sayange that you use on your analogy above, that means the Malaysian will also have to reciprocate that bahasa melayu are originally come from jambi???

    Oopsie… sorry unspun, I’ve guess i’ve stepped the line of crooked thinking territory :))

    Like

  248. @bluey: Bahasa melayu originated from jambi? uve got to be kidding me lah. languages and cultures belong to the ppl, these donot belong to a place lah man. even if theres no malays more in jambi now then u still think it belongs to jambi only…

    eg here: we do all know that most of the americans were british colonies, they were previously british, they have their own language and then they went to usa for their own nation. then their languages and cultures belong to british??? everything they wana show to other ppl they have to ask british’s permisssion?

    now even though it may originated from jambi, does this give rights to u indonesian to rebadge bahasa melayu as bahasa indonesia??? i dont think so lah man, nobody in the world accepted this concept of rebadging the language based on a nation’s name. In malaysia, the official language is bahasa melayu becoz majority of us are malays but wait indonesia???? malays are only minority, ur javanese, bataknese, minang etc…

    uguys hated us malays the most esp in the peninsula, but wait everyday living, ur national identity is based on malays heritage, ‘the language’? where goes ur language? javanese/bataknese etc? how come ur everyday language is based on other ppl language lah man esp u hated those ppl. language matters most, its de factor identity, and here whether uguys hate it onot, ur de factor identity is based on other ppl identity lah man…No hard feeelings cheers 🙂

    Like

  249. Thats right, so you must surely acknowledge that malay tribe are, originally comes from Sumatra. Thats what im asking here dude….

    Like

  250. @bluey: yeap :-), malays originated not only from sumatra, got from java, ambon etc…FYI ive got bugis bloodline…the fact that we malays originated from where now is indonesia does not means that our language and cultures belong to indonesia…any language and cultures belong to the ppl, its our birth right to practice, to promote or even to commercialize…no matter where we go…

    well my point at first was, the bahasa indonesia is based on bahasa melayu even though it had underwent many changes thanks to the cultural influence. But the question was does this give indonesians right to rebadge bahasa melayu as bahasa indonesia? bahasa melayu not only used by the malaysians and indonesians but singaporeans and brunei ppl. now do we have bahasa singapura, bahasa brunei except for bahasa indonesia?

    FYI the singaporean bahasa melayu got this ‘gerek sih’ and this words didnot come from bahasa melayu, its from the cultural influences. the changes a language endured from cultural influences does not grant anybody the right to rebadge the language. hence we donot have bahasa singapura, bahasa brunei, american language, canadian language or australian language. according to this well accepted principle, so the bahasa indonesia in the first place CANNOT be called as it is, a language can NEVER be rebadge, so i wonder does indonesians have the balls to admit that its NOT bahasa indonesia but its bahasa melayu…. No hard feelings , Cheers man 🙂

    Like

  251. But, I read somewhere (i think wikipedia) that The Malaysian government kept changing their national language from bahasa melayu, bahasa malaysia, bahasa kebangsaan. Whats the different?

    Like

  252. @bluey: yeah those stupid malaysian government ppl wana make it bahasa malaysia but among academicians and majority malaysian ppl, its bahasa melayu…lately got alot ppl expressed our discontent wit this rebadge…

    the difference is there, the rebadge is not well accepted here in malaysia, we all say its bahasa melayu, not bahasa malaysia. but in indonesia, its a well accepted wrong policy that its bahasa indonesia (im questioning if indonesians, academicians or not, do uguys have the balls to admit it as bahasa melayu and not bahasa indonesia? (which is wrong concept here man) No hard feelings ya, cheers man 🙂

    Like

  253. Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian used to be called Serbo-croatian, Creole used to be French, Afrikaans used to be Dutch, Indonesian used to be Malay. Some languages evolve and diverge, naturally or politically. In Indonesia’s case, I think both (I’m no linguist though).

    Like

  254. go on bro @bluey,@Kamarul,@kemsey healthy discussions. Keep away the patrioticism or nationalicism for a while. Then we will see our meeting point.
    Eh @kamarul where are you? Kubang Krian eh? practising your LSP402?

    Like

  255. @dolah: yeap kubang kerian, finished my LSP402 in first year and LHP456 in second year aledy. im in 4th year now hehe…why suddenly ask? 🙂

    Like

  256. But, bahasa melayu is a part of Indonesia isn’t it? Melayu is a dominant tribe in sumatra and borneo. If we change it into Bahasa Indonesia, isn’t it the same thing as Malaysia change rasa sayange into rasa sayang hey??? So why can’t we do the same and rename Bahasa Melayu into Bahasa Indonesia??

    After all, it has absorp many words from many other tribes in Indonesia beside the Melayu Tribe. And, we call it Bahasa Indonesia because it it being used as communication language by ALL Indonesian, regardless of their tribe, ethnic and religion. So even chinese, indian, and arab (among other ethnicity) descent in Indonesian speak the language fluently. Thats why we never questioned the naming of the language, the language has become something that one of the key element of uniting all tribes (and ethic) in the vast region of Indonesia.

    Like

  257. @bluey: we donot know which one came first, rasa sayang hey or rasa sayange, so in this case we donot know which one being copied or which one is the copy…

    but in the case of bahasa melayu, its obvious that bahasa indonesia originated from bahasa melayu. the fact that it received influences from other tribes and being used as a sole language communicating between various tribes, ethnics and religions, didnot give anybody rights to rebadge the language. its still bahasa melayu and nobody can change that fact. FYI bahasa melayu also received alot of influences like arabs. chinese etc but it can never be bahasa malaysia.

    bahasa melayu is not only used by indonesians but also malaysian, singaporean, south thailand and brunei. its a more universal entity rather than restricted to certain nation. its the second widely used language after english (correct me if im wrong)…so thats why theres no american language, canadian etc right? 🙂

    Like

  258. then there is no such things like “permissions” “ethical”, “stealing” right? since no Malays ptotests to Indonesian regarding the changes from bahasa Melayu to bahasa Indonesia. So I think I am going to miss the discussions…as for me its already came to the conclusion…
    Why I ask? @kamarul he he he I have a telepathy kinda mind….completed LHP456 good …I think I can even give the name of your English Language Instructors…

    Like

  259. haree genee masih ngomongin Rasa Sayange??? Basi, ganti topik dong Oom. Akika bisa muntahe darahe baca omkos (omong kosong) ga puguh juntrungan-nya! I wonder if our Malaysian friends can interpret this slang. Upami teu ngartos mah balik sana maneh ka lembur melak pecai…hahaha!

    Like

  260. uiks im sure the title of this thread is Rasa Not So Sayang, i wondered if unspun could simply change the topic…perhaps the easiest way to change the topic is by going to another thread with another topic, am i right?

    these are words from bahasa melayu—> masih, rasa, sayang, basi, ganti, topik, muntah, darah, baca, kosong, -nya, balik, sana. No hard feelings, cheers man 🙂

    Like

  261. Relax kamarul, we indonesians DO know that bahasa indonesia comes from bahasa melayu, we acknowledge it.

    There were socio-political reasonings to use and adapt bahasa melayu for wider use in indonesia, which i will not discuss here.

    In fact i’ve long considered bahasa indonesia as a flavor of bahasa melayu, a dialect, a sub bahasa, u may say, i dont mind.

    to come to that conclusion, i’ve encountered so many different flavors of bahasa melayu, even for places separated by 60km only, melayu sambas, melayu mempawah, melayu pontianak, or farther, melayu riau, melayu deli, melayu palembang, etc…

    SO,
    why call it bahasa indonesia not bahasa melayu?
    becoz there are enough people to want it, enough people to feel comfortable with the term,

    The name is used, exploited u may say, to create a unified identity of the nation, while the history/story behind it, at the same time, honor, exalt, the culture of melayu.

    Like

  262. @Bonar: we malaysians donot have any problem with indonesians speaking bahasa melayu, uguys can use it, can promote it, can commercialize it anyway uguys like, just feel free, plus uguys definitely have no need to ask anybody’s permision. i believe cultures, language, musics belong to the ppl, it can never be restricted to certain geographical boundaries man…

    of course its okay when theres enough ppl to feel comfortable with the term, im not gonna push the malaysian govern to bring this bahasa melayu case to the ICJ either hehe :-). yeah a language got alot of sub-bahasa or we called it dialects, even here in malaysia. but um its just, like all the dialects u mentioned above it got this melayu riau etc, the word melayu is there right and the word riau explained the dialect. but rebadging bahasa melayu into bahasa indonesia is another different case. im glad that its to honor, exalt, the culture of melayu, why dont we called it bahasa melayu indonesia? its still bahasa melayu but the dialect is being used by indonesians. just like melayu singapura, melayu brunei etc….

    eg: american english, canadian english, australian english etc and not american language, canadian language, australian language, right? To conclude, its bahasa melayu malaysia, melayu singapura, melayu brunei, melayu indonesia, melayu sambas, melayu mempawah, melayu pontianak, or farther, melayu riau, melayu deli, melayu palembang, etc… certainly not bahasa indonesia, bahasa malaysia, bahasa singapura, bahasa brunei….
    Peace 🙂

    Like

  263. as implied by “enough people feel comfortable with the term”,

    the answer is simple: becoz we dont want to 🙂

    Like

  264. we donot know which one came first, rasa sayang hey or rasa sayange, so in this case we donot know which one being copied or which one is the copy…

    Kamarul, I want you to prove me, show me a hard evidence that the people in Malaysia has been singing rasa sayange longer than Indonesia.

    Like

  265. @Bonar: enlightenment is the most enjoyable thing a person can experience…that gives me some conclusions…thanks

    @Bluey: honestly, ur giving me an impossible ultimatum here man…i cannot, u cannot either…nobody cannot say which one come first, as far as i know nobody knows whether rasa sayang hey or e came first. my simple, humble point is when we donot know this, the matter of accusing each other of stealing or claiming to belong to one nation should have never been brought up…cheers 🙂

    Like

  266. Hey guys, it’s okay for Malaysian to steal Rasa sayange.
    but please, make sure you guys steal Jablay, kopi dangdut, Bisik-bisik tetangga, poco poco, Bukan pengemis cinta, Sekuntum mawar merah next time. those song are FAR better then the Rasa Sayange itself, Believe me!

    It’s basically for tourist attraction, right? we love your CALL MANIA CENTER. yes it is, it’s a lovely thing to spend time on the Internet other than watching replays of Mat Rempit show or watching pak lah sleeping. next time, we’ll cheer for your guys Soyuz to successfully reach the moon, and bring back the moonstone for us. we’ll make better Rendang out of it next time you guys visit our countries, oh and.. don’t forget to speak Melayu next time you guys visit Indonesia, it’s kinda numb when we think about it that you guys speak English in out countries.

    cheers!

    Like

  267. @kamarul: “claiming to belong to one nation should have never been brought up” I disagree, by having this discussion, one may get insights about many things.

    We, indonesians, accused malaysia, becoz we thought, it was undeniably original mollucan’s, it was just an overly common knowledge here about the origin of that song.

    We thought our mollucan brothers were being ripped off, we reacted, probly overreacted, mostly even,
    becoz at first media coverage didnt talk about the possibility that it COULD be from malaysia,
    they never talked about that it is also common for malaysians to think that it is original malaysians folksong.

    But judging from the reaction of your officials, of which i think quite genuine, at least, you -didnt intend- to do harm.

    The beauty of the whole dialectics, is that now we know your points, vice versa, we dont necessarily agree, but we understand that, maybe, we are not that different at all.

    Like unspun said before, we witness changes of attitude by this.

    It might require a cultural research about this particular song just for academic sake, or just to satisfy our curiousity, perhaps? or it may be a ladder for cultural cooperations, who knows…

    @Bluey: We might think that we have a better position by having the 1962 record, and, i heard, even from the 1930s, but solving this by those proofs will only scratch the surface of the culture clash. Co-operation to better understand each other is a much better option.

    @Radeonator: ahhh, come on brother, enough with the taunting. Lets move on.

    Like

  268. What surprises me is that the ‘over-reacting’ of the Indonesian people and govenment over this song. To claim that cultures STOP AT THE BORDER is stupid. That is what Indonesian people think of this issue. They claim Malaysia steals their cultural ‘belongings’.

    What the Indonesian people want is that the Malaysian’s Javanese, Ambonese, Achenese and other ethnics should strip-off their cultural identity once they crossed the “border” to become “Malays”. And these stupid Indonesians didnt understand their history well.

    The term “Malay Archipelago” is much more accepted than the “Nusantara” one. The language is considered as “Malays” but the Indonesian Malay version is the most spoken one, due to the quantity. Not the Javanese or the Ambonese. People identify this area as the “Malay” – the culture, the people and language, and to some extend –> Habit!

    And btw, batik is culturally owned by the China’s Yunnan who migrated to form the Malay Archipalego some 2 millenium back. These Malay Champa are the direct descendants of these Yunnan immigrants. These are the people who brought Batik to these archipelago -> to the Javanese and other ethnics. And guess who these people are now –> The Kelantan and Terengganu people. Check the photo here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Malaysia

    And to Indonesian people, how come you claim batik is yours when some 2000 years back, you did not even invent the weaving machine like the Chinese did?

    Peace.

    Like

  269. To V** or something who said that Malaysian is embarrasing for claiming the copyrights of batik and angklung.

    My questions to you

    1. Show me the copyrights.
    2. Tell me how KFC is not wronged for claiming the “Fried Chicken”

    I hope your mouth is as good as your brain.

    Peace.

    Like

  270. Batik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batik) as I ever knew before is about the techniek in the field of textile. I ever learned “membatik” at school when I had to make motives on white textile (kain putih) used the techniek of “membatik”. The result is that both sides of the textile will have similar quality (no back and front side). The techniek (so far I know) is that by coloring it in colored liquid. To make drawings you can use wax and canting, but also I ever learned a simple way to create a motive (drawing) just by using plastic and rope as cover. Only, I’m confused about “batik cetak” which I think it is considered to be batik in terms of the motives (types of drawing).

    Bahasa Indonesia is not just about Melayu. It may contain a lot of words considered to be originated from Bahasa Melayu (probably because of the most popular language in the region at that time), but it consists of some other local and foreign languages as well included those from colonial era. The concept of Bahasa Indonesia is that (as I ever learned) it won’t stop growing and will adapt new words (if necessary) from other languages (in this world). Therefore, this new language (Bahasa Indonesia) as one of Indonesian cultural products will be enriched.

    About “Nusantara”, I do agree very much with the argument on geographical term. It means basically: (Nusa + Antara) island(s) between two continents and two oceans. This term and understading helped Indonesia to win the “Zona Exclusive Economy” argument when Indonesia has to face her special condition of teritory which contains not only lands but also seas. I can imagine if some people say different things about Nusantara based on the condition of what Indonesia really is in broader sense than geographical term. 😉

    In the case of the song “Rasa Sayange” which is one of the famous cultural heritages in Indonesia, I can imagine if Indonesians feel irritated by the action of Malaysia use Indonesian product to promote Malaysian touristic industry. And, I can’t feel more irritated by Malaysian government who (without any shame) promotes her own country as the representative of what Asia really is. Come on!!! As other Indonesians would say, I say: Be Smarter!!!

    Like

  271. Be honest, Malay’s (Melayu) traders (as most traders always be) have bad unpublished reputation in Indonesia. Melayu in Indonesia includes also them from Sumatera.

    Like

  272. Re: Rasa Sayange brought over by Ambonese community to Malaysia- I just have to comment: Ambonese community in Malaysia? You do realize that they are mostly Christian, thus making them Christian yet Malay thus they are all criminal of apostasy under Malaysian law. My casual guess is that there is NO Ambonese community in Malaysia. Prove me wrong.

    Like

  273. When I sing this Rasa Sayange, I can think of Melayu’s (Sumatera – Padang) culture who love to use ‘pantun’. And, that’s what the song about.

    I think Indonesians know about ‘pantun’. What about Malaysians?

    Like

  274. @kemsey

    Gee, I guess the Malaysia Government can announce that the Ambonese in Malaysia has CONVERT to malay so it’s gonna be hard to find them in Malaysia.

    This race classification based on religion is ridiculous.

    Like

  275. MAlINGSIA IS THE RACIST COUNTRY
    China saja didiskriminasi di malaysia , india apa lagi, orang melayu mala7uy ini adalah xenophobia, idiot dan pemalas. salam dari china indonesia

    Like

  276. Kamarul said: “to be fair, if uguys wanted the malaysian to admit that the Rasa sayange song belongs to indonesia (not only originated from Maluku) then the indonesians must reciprocate by admitting that its not bahasa indonesia, its bahasa melayu… No hard feelings, Peace man.”

    Encik Kamarul, saya nak tanya.. Kapan sejarah bangsa malaysia dimulai? Kapan sejarah bangsa melayu dimulai?

    Setahu saya, Sejarah Melayu dimulai dari berdirinya negara Islam Malaka yang didirikan oleh Parameswara.
    Siapa Parameswara? Dia adalah orang dari Palembang (sumatera) yang berasal dari kerajaan majapahit di jawa.

    Dari sana terbukti malah bahasa Malysia/melayu itu berasal dari bahasa Sumatera. Karena peradaban Islam di sumatera jauh lebih tua dari peradaban Islam di Malaysia. Kemungkinan sejarah terbasar addalah para muslim Sumatera yang mebangun peradaban di Malaka.

    Jadi, pantasnya, bukan bahasa Indonesia yang harus jadi Bahasa Melayu, tapi bahasa Melayu yang harusnya mengaku bahasa Sumatera…

    Dan Anda tak bisa membandingkan Bahasa Indonesia dengan Amerika dan Australia.
    Sekarang tahukah anda, brapa banyak pengaruh bahasa Indian atau Aborigin kepada bahasa Inggris di US dan Ausie.
    Bisakah Kamarul sebut 50 kata saja dari bahasa Indian atau Aborigin yang masuk vocabulary di US atau Ausie? HAMPIR TIDAK ADA, CIK!
    Jadi wajar mereka tidak meyebut English mereka Amerikan atau Australian English.

    Bangsa Melayu Malaysia itu bangsa yang tidak punya jadi diri, kalian selalu punya “crisis of self-identity”. Itulah makanya bangsa Melayu di Malaysia harus dilindungi dengan hukum, kalau tidak begitu, bangsa melayu akan hilang di Malaysia.

    What is your slogan? “Truly Asia”, Why not truly Malaysia?
    Because every China Pakistan or Tibet can say they are truly Asia!

    To Indonesians…. Selamat Hari Pahlawan 10 November.
    Tetap kobarkan rasa cinta tanah air… rasa yang tidak akan dimengerti oleh rakyat malaysia
    Malaysia tak punya pahlawan kan? Toh kemerdekaan aja dikasih orang inggris. Makanya jadi anggota commonwealth, ya kan?
    Cuma Malaysia angkuh saja tak mau pasang Union Jack di benderanya, malahan bikin seperti Star spangled bannernya Amrik.

    Kasian deh!

    Like

  277. Just for fun and more about Malay Language (Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia), try see here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay-based_creole_languages

    Dear Kamarul,
    Admire you spirit here! Why would you want to repeat the same thing over and over again? Haven’t you noticed that these thread has been repeating? Everything in the last 10 ~ 20 comments could have been explained earlier. Nothing new has been added. It seems our friends in Indonesia refuses to have an understand and just want to pick a fight. They just want to show that they are better and they started everything. Let them be, they can’t change nothing.
    I must compliment you for stopping to use the word Indon but you see, most of them just don’t deserve the respect. Just a few so far I see their wise comments, the rest are simply rubbish.

    This thread has become less and less intellectual. I’d just came in to have fun now. Not going to do anymore explanation nor defends. It just won’t going to change a thing.

    Like

  278. As much as I hate quoting a single source especially from the web (and Wikipedia), I must admit it’s most convenient. He he. (^_^)

    Quoted from:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_language
    … … The Malay language (Malay: Bahasa Melayu; Jawi script: بهاس ملايو), is an Austronesian language spoken by the Malay people who reside in the Malay Peninsula, southern Thailand, the Philippines, Singapore, central eastern Sumatra, the Riau islands, parts of the coast of Borneo and even in the Netherlands[1]. It is an official language of Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore. It is very similar to Indonesian, known locally as Bahasa Indonesia, the official language of Indonesia. … …

    And this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_language
    … … Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) is the official language of Indonesia. Indonesian is a standardized dialect of the Malay language that was officially defined with the declaration of Indonesia’s independence in 1945. … …

    Like

  279. Wow, John Wai is a fine example of Chinese being the most adaptable people. You see, Chinese can easily blend into any cultures and country. As the old Chinese wisdom: “Follow The Tradition Of The Village You Going Into.”

    Like

  280. Almost everyone here says I believe this, I believe that and quoting sources from Wikipedia (convenient like I said, Ha Ha) but always only the part that best fit their comment. I wonder what happened to the rest of the article they quoted? Hmm… talking about being crooked!

    Like

  281. Rasa Sayang is such a nice song I sang almost everyday when I learn it even before I go to school. I even learned my “pantun” with Rasa Sayang and duet with the girl next door, he he. It was such a romantic song but from this thread, it became so pathetic. Sayang = Love but now it sounds more like = Sorry.

    Feeling Sorry hey!
    Feeling Sorry Sorry hey!
    Hey! Look at people in here feeling Sorry Sorry Hey!

    Like

  282. @Vic: planning to do so, i aledy had my own conclusions on this rasa sayang hey issue and my overall perception on indonesian ppl, thanks for reminding me…i guess thats all folks. enlightenment is enjoyable, try it urself. cheeers 🙂

    Like

  283. @Vic: luckily kelantanese malay and perakian malay are not included hehe 🙂
    Kota Bharu come sokmo, ape kroje deme ni otok cayo sangat…

    Like

  284. Dear Unspun, I just noticed this message:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Askimet doing his job yah? What did I wrote there? Hope to see it again 😛

    Like

  285. @Vic: haha the first part is kelantanese which i copied from bus stands in KB, the latter part is perakian, no wonder u cannot understand hehe 🙂

    Like

  286. Saudara Tommy Joe.

    Saya merujuk kepada jawapan saudara pada Kamarul. Saudara atau sesiapa saja boleh berbangga dengan semangat patriotik negara saudara, Indonesia.

    Itu memang sifat semulajadi setiap manusia yang ada harga diri. Sayang dan megah dengan negara sendiri. Namun jangan disalah gunakan untuk memandang rendah dengan negara orang. Malaysia dan Indonesia adalah 2 negara yang mempunyai haluan berbeza. Cara mencapai kemerdekaan juga berbeza.

    Tidak perlu untuk Malaysia berperang dengan Britain untuk mendapatkan kemerdekaan. Ini kerana Britain tahu bila hendak berundur. Setelah mendapati tidak mungkin lagi dapat memerintah Malaya ( ketika itu), ia dengan hormatnya meminggalkan Malaya dalam satu upacara gilang gemilang.

    Malaysia tidak malu untuk memberitahu dunia yang ia mendapat kemerdekaan secara rundingan. Apa hak Indonesia untuk mempertikaikan kemerdekaan Malaysia.

    Apakah Indonesia akan berperang dengan Belanda jika Belanda sanggup pergi secara sukarela. Tentu tidak. Tetapi Belanda, tidak seperti Britain, enggan keluar. Lalu terpaksa diusir.

    Apa hak saudara untuk menilai bendera Malaysia. Dan sebaliknya juga. Saudara tidak perlu buang masa memikirkan bendera Malaysia. Adalah lebih baik untuk memikirkan bagaimana mahu memajukan diri dan negara.

    Hinakah Malaysia jika lebih satu juta rakyat Indonesia mencari rezeki di Malaysia. Hinakah Malaysia yang menghantar bantuan ke Acheh, atau Sumatera bila dilanda gempa. Hinakah Malaysia yang memberikan bantuan ratusan juta ringgit kepada Indonesia pada 1998 disaat satu dunia mahu “menyembelih” Indonesia.

    Sama-samalah kita fikirkan.

    Like

  287. Oh, didn’t know Perak has it’s own dialect. You said you were from Kuala Kangsar? I heard it’s a nice city.

    Like

  288. Dear Shamshul Annuar, your message eaten my entry?!!? Ha ha. Just asking Kamarul that Perak has their own dialect.

    How are you, friend?

    Hopefully they understand our Bahasa Malaysia, after all, Bahasa Indonesia is SO much different from it.

    Like

  289. @Vic: yeap perak got own dialects, not only one. Group 1: kuala kangsar, sayong etc, Group 2: manong, menore, Group 3: Bota, Parit etc Group 4: taiping, bagan serai….

    Group 1,2,3 are purely perakian dialects, however if u hear ppl from these areas speak, it seemed that they sound so different, but basically the words are the same, only pronunciation differs. Group 4 uses nothern dialect like penang, kedah etc…

    Like

  290. Dear Kamarul, just like Chinese dialects. Ha ha. I think I just saw an article about Manongs on last Sunday Star Paper.

    Like

  291. Err…Shamshul

    The Dutch has been colonizing for Indonesia more than 10 generations. During that time, countless battle are waged by local Indonesian Leader like Pattimura, Cut Nyak Dien, Fatahillah, and many more that I can not possibly named each one. Thats why we, Indonesian are very proud of how we got our Independence, our history book are colored by many brave heroes who died for something called independence.

    But frankly if the British is the one who colonized Indonesia, maybe we don’t have to fight for our Indonesia. British have always give Independence to their colonized territories if they can afford it.

    Can anyone explain why India is so hard to give up by the British? It puzzled me

    Like

  292. Wow, Shamshul Annuar, new topic! Does anyone know the British condition after WWII? If US had fought their independence from British after WWII, there wouldn’t be that much bloodshed. But then again, if British had US during WWII, they won’t suffered that much from the Nazis & Japanese. World War practically didn’t include America continent.

    Oh sorry, actually it meant to address to triedtobehonest. Cheers.

    Like

  293. It just puzzled me when I read Shamshul comment that the British and Malaysia negotiate the agreement of Malaysia Indopendence. British has changed Australia colonization into commonwealth since along time ago, while India only gained Independence after the WWII but the British seems reluctant to let it go. So what’s so special about India? Not to mention that not long after, gave up on Malaysia too.

    If the measure/reason is the natural resources, wouldn’t Australia are rich in natural resources also? So why gave it up?

    Sorry Kamarul, don’t worry, it’s only short distraction from you fave topic. I don’t think a lot of people interested enough on this topic.

    Like

  294. Dear triedtobehonest, Tea, maybe? You know how the English are crazy about tea. India produces Diamonds too!! Also, the ethnic clashes in India is far worse than Malaysia then (now even?) Maybe the English thinks India not ready yet?

    Haha, Kamarul. you been link to co-own this thread already.

    Like

  295. hehehe…

    if you would notice, Kamarul is the one followed this thread right from the beginning to the end. The difference is the people he argued with. Mostly gave up arguing with him but other would take turns 😀

    Dear Vic.Kyle.Ellanne
    But Australia has the goldmine…not to mention the koalas and the kangaroos.

    Like

  296. @triedtobehonest, vic.kyle.ellane: i have to agree with vic with “english thinks India not ready yet”.

    to understand the way the english think those days, i think u should read Rudyard Kiplings “white man’s burden”.
    granted, hes an american poet, but his views (or the intrepretation of his views) were (err i dunno if this is the appropriate word) coherent with the eurocentric colonialist trends those days.

    for comparation sakes, triedtobehonest (i assume u’re indonesian) it was at the same spirit with van deventer’s trias politica in indonesia as part of “politik etis”, cmiiw, highschool history was sooo long ago :).

    and to some extend it is comparable to the concept of enlightened despotism stance by the nobilities towards the commoners.

    please keep in mind that im just stating my opinion about the views on those days, and dont necessarily agree with those ideas. okay.. this is too much OT ya? sorry :p

    Like

  297. anyway guys, u DO realize that this thread has already pass 100 A4 pages, right?

    LOL, it has already consume 10% pages of my monthly reading target.

    try print preview!

    Like

  298. Dear Bonar,
    they had the Supremacy issue ma. Like the Nazy case lar.
    Anyway, Malaysia almost didn’t made it although the British knew they had to leave soon. The WWII drained their resources but they can’t afford to lose the trade route in Straits of Malacca.

    Why am I being serious again. Ha ha.

    Like

  299. @Vic.Kyle.Ellanne

    Bull’s eye comments

    @Bonar

    True to triaas politica, it tried to give back to Indonesian something. But in reality its the dutch who gained from it. Cheap labor for plantation outside Java, Irigation for the plantation, and someone who’s not illiterate to do the lowly official work.

    hehehe, if you edit the print preview to dismiss all of Kamarul comment, I am sure you can save 50% of the paper. Sorry kamarul, no hard feeling. I just can’t stop myself 😀

    Like

  300. @triedtobehonest: LOL, u’re indonesian after all, u know ur history well.

    “But in reality its the dutch who gained from it”
    im not going to argue u with that. Reality always differ with ideas.

    Eh, by print previewing, i wasnt intending to mock kamarul, or inviting people to do that, or something ya! i was just curious.

    Like

  301. @bonar
    you’re right, if they didn’t open up schools for pribumi, where would Sukarno, Hatta, and many others go???
    BTW, I like your first comment. Me, too are raised in an area with predominant malay tribe (Pontianak & Batam).

    Like

  302. Kamarul, u r famous in this thread. I think your contributions really takes up half the thread!! HA HA (^o^)

    I thought Pontianak is an evil ghost? So it’s a place also. He he, my Geography must be questioned.

    Like

  303. Pontianak is the capital city of West Kalimantan/Borneo. It borders with the Malaysia. It did named after the evil female ghost.

    Hey Kamarul, you should be proud of your achievement in this thread. I didn’t mean it in a negative light, but as a compliment.

    BTW, why is unspun did not write anything about the big demo at Malaysia yesterday??? I just read it in the newspaper. My word is: great job, continue the fight. Its a good cause. In what I read, Pak Lah labels the demo las illegal. well, thats what happens if democracy fails, replaced by democrazy.

    Like

  304. Yellow Walk, yesterday. the compliment should go to BERSIH, a coalition on free and fair elections made up by 34 political parties and NGOs. i think an UMNO member of parliment oso took part, Ruhanie Ahmad?

    Memorandum was sent to the King although he was not at the palace that time, riding horses in homestate Terengganu. and estimated crowd was more than 100 000 ppl, although the mainstream media claimed otherwise

    wana see stream video on the whole event here http://www.tvpas.com/mainpage.php?cat=index

    wana read more/photos here
    http://www.harakahdaily.net and http://rockybru.blogspot.com/

    Like

  305. Don’t tell me that Pontianak came from Pontianak! Malaysia had already a few Pontianak movies and shows and books and exhibitions. Major “stealing” here if the MTB decided to promote Pontianak also. Quick quick, trademark Pontianak!!

    Aiseh, all demo without permit is illegal lar. Must pay before can get permit!!
    BTW, Malaysia is define as a Federal Monarchy state, by definition it’s not a democratic country what.

    Unspun having headache reading through the long and out of context thread!! 😀

    Like

  306. @triedtobehonest: hnggg? awak orang ponti jua ke? ish ish ish balak jua ye internet ni, dahla kesanak kemari, ujong2e ketemu kite2 jak! (reading clue: u hav to imagine me talking with r bekarat) :p
    i was living there for 3 years, during my hs years, you? and where do u live now? im in jogja, and probly papua next year.
    Hmm, My first post… after re-thinking about it, was actually into the category of “crooked thinking” as explained on unspun’s other post. Probably becoz my lack of arguing skill, since i didnt intend any harm.

    @kamarul: youre the biggest target, youre the most resourceful (aside from mc and vic, i guess), and youre admirably the most passionate, yet ironically, u declare this whole thing as “not that important to be discussed”. and no, im not trying to pick a fight, thats a compliment. 🙂

    @Vic: chinese populations in that city called pontianak as khuntien,
    and to me, khuntien’s chinese cuisine is the BEST! even until years, im still craving, and wondering why did i leave that city. u should go there sometimes.

    @unspun: i just read your response on my comment, lol, i rarely go to lapo lah, u’re generalizing bataknese people! 🙂 but ok, 1 or 2 glasses of tuak with a slightly heated conversations, wont do harm, i suppose. 🙂

    …and this thread is now becoming a place of social interaction

    Like

  307. Chinese food always good!! Ha ha (self promoting!! cheh)

    Chinese in Pontianak called Khuntien? That’s cute, I wonder what Chinese word does it translate into? Since Bonar my friend strongly recommend, I will brave myself someday to face the Pontianak and taste the cuisine there. It better be so good to die for!! He he he he he…

    Like

  308. Aiyoyo, so craving for food forgotten to thank you, Bonar. Seems like my lunch not good enough :p Thanks for the compliment pal. My info is like rojak, just like Malaysian favourite food. Food again….!

    Like

  309. Kamarul you r too well known, Askimet want to moderate you!! Ha ha.

    Dear Unspun, while you are checking, I think I got one locked up last night too. He he, can bail out?

    Like

  310. Oh u BET it is good to die for! I am FANATICAL about this! :p

    this is from “jalansutra” column of bondan winarno’s, hes one of the most respected food taster (is that even a job description?) in indo:

    http://www.kompas.co.id/utama/news/0404/15/134412.htm

    Jalansutra means “book/sutra of travelling”. Hmmm, but then u might not be able to understand his words…. y am i making a fool of miself…

    Like

  311. huhu i just copy it here lah

    Yellow Walk, yesterday. the compliment should go to BERSIH, a coalition on free and fair elections made up by 34 political parties and NGOs. i think an UMNO member of parliment oso took part, Ruhanie Ahmad?

    Memorandum was sent to the King although he was not at the palace that time, riding horses in homestate Terengganu. and estimated crowd was more than 100 000 ppl, although the mainstream media claimed otherwise

    wana see stream video on the whole event here http://www.tvpas.com/mainpage.php?cat=index

    wana read more/photos here
    http://www.harakahdaily.net and http://rockybru.blogspot.com/

    Like

  312. @kamarul: its becoz hes/shes always call akiSmet as aSkimet (go on… scroll up) lol.
    akimetS is no worse than indonesians on overreacting about names :p

    Like

  313. Dear Bonar,
    thanks for the link. His Bahasa not too hard for me, I still can “cari makan”. I’d saved the link, got chance must go. I almost forgotten the food must be halal. Surprised at first when the Malays (I think) trying out Chinese food. In Malaysia nowadays, Malays don’t go into Chinese restaurant anymore. Unlike the old days when everyone – Chinese, Malay or Indian, all would “minum kopi” together in a coffee shop (for those didn’t know, traditional coffee shop or “kopitiam” are restaurant basically run by immigrant from Hainan province in China, they serve good coffee and toast breads/buns)

    Like

  314. Because I got it’s name wrong?! So sorry ah! Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… Akismet… I’m sure going to remember it this time.

    Maybe like Bonar said, we are resourceful! Resourceful people gets lots of unwanted attention from askim…. oppss, akismet! Ha Ha ha ha ha ha !

    Like

  315. U can get halal food and the non-halal in pontianak, i suppose.
    Dont forget, there are moslem chinese too (i mean theyre two completely different concept, arent they?).

    in fact, here in my place in jogjakarta (somewhere in java island), the owner of the most-famous-traditional-cookie-in-the-city’s recipe is a moslem chinese.
    The former president, Abdurahman (gus dur), claimed that he is a chinese descendant, and he is an avid moslem thinker.

    Up until i was 5, my parents told me,
    my main language was tiochiu(local chinese dialects, i suppose), coz my breastfeeding mother was a chinese also,
    until my parents realized that i couldnt communicate in bahasa indonesia at all, that my kindergarten teacher thought i was an idiot(shes probly right anyway,lol),
    then they brainwashed me with english, bahasa indonesia, and bataknese, made me totally forgot about tiochiu.

    ok. im blabbering.

    my point is, i might be a christian bataknese (a proto-malay ethnic), and i strongly promote malay culture in my javanese environment, or promote bataknese culture in a predominantly malay places.
    But when it comes to FOOD, i have YET to find something that can beat khuntien’s chinese cuisines, halal or not.

    when it comes to food, im my breastfeeding mother’s son.

    Like

  316. Wow, Bonar, you are a hybrid (sorry to use that word, he he, just watched Underworld and whole mind with the Werewolf Vampire things).

    No offence la, cross ethnic parent usually produce off-springs (He he, still in the movie) like you with mostly good looks and more intelligent. That shows in your comments.

    Your kindergarten teacher must be jealous with your looks la!! He he.
    You see, you mastered 3 languages!!

    Like

  317. Hey Guys,

    I think this thread is beginning to run its course. What I find interesting, however, is that some of you who have started off thinking the worst of each other have virtually become friends.

    So the Usual Suspects – Vic.Kyle.Ellanne, Bonar, kamarul, triedtobehonest, Shamshul Annuar, DeaGLe, Ally, kemsey and others – I need your help in anothet thought experiment.

    Unspun would like all of you to post on a new thread Rasa Not So Sayang. It would be great if you can tell us what your original perceptions are about the other’s country and how, if any, have these perceptions changed since you started engaging them in debate/conversation. Unspun is trying to establish a point that blogging can actually encourage conversations, and through conversations, understanding, even among the staunches defenders of a position.

    You guys being the group that you are, Unspun is sure you’ll find something to debate about even in such an innocuous topic. 🙂

    Like

  318. Dear Unspun,
    I never started of like that lar, but ended that way instead, ha ha, just kidding.
    Never in my opinion that all Indonesian are bad, just some, usually these are the vocal ones. So does Malaysian, some are bad some are good. But the majority of the bad in Malaysia are running the country. Ha ha ha.

    As for Kamarul, I got no comment. Ha ha ha ha (kidding pal)

    Like

  319. well, not everyone here is terrorist either.
    oh wait, we’re already an information terrorist by posting here. isn’t it?
    (just kidding, LOL)

    Like

  320. I just salute Indonesian like @Bonar,@treidtobehonest, they gave me the other sides of point, where I do sometimes agree and sometimes agree to disagree..well that is common (lumrah)this is what Gandi’s said “I have no enemies, only a friends with a different opinions” the same goes to @bonar, @triedtobehonest.
    but this Tommy Joe is really “kampungan” you want to celebrate your hari Pahlawan go ahead! If you knew nothing about you neighboring countries background why dont you go and eat your ice cream somewhere! dont’t have to bring it up here such a secondary school kid kind of mentality!!! you really spoild the Indonesian scholars lol….

    Like

  321. @dolah kurdis, i have to salute u too, for many different reasons. i do believe that u know alot about indonesia,

    u may jokingly conclude, for every 10 indonesians there are 20 differing opinions, 40 of those opinions are kampungan… u dont agree with my math? I BEG TO DIFFER! 🙂

    Some of malaysians brothers pointed out that we have problems with all those ideological concepts and our seemingly keen interest to pick an argument. I’ll tell you 3 things:
    1. we, indonesians, might be born of klingon heritage 🙂 (i kid)
    2. It is more healthy this way, arguing is democracy in the making.
    3. our ideological things, are our business, not yours.

    WE ADMIT we have a problem, im going to give you statistical comparation here: there are 250millions people in indonesia, compared to 26(?) million in malaysia.

    When Pak Lah approached President Bambang, he complained. “your 2 million people are making problems in our country”. President Bambang replied:”you THINK you have a problem? i have your problem, TIMES a hundred!”
    OK, thats just a joke.

    If we really are serumpon, and statistics are correct, then roughly every 1 stupid argument from malaysia, there will be 10 stupid arguments from Indonesia, if not 20. The same goes with the smart arguments.

    Then the existence of my brother Tommy Joe is not really that amazing, let him be.

    For comparation sakes, there are 8% who use internet regularly, thats 20 millions indonesians, there are 20% non-moslems, thats 50 millions. With so many differing opinions, it is a miracle that we havent already went into a full blown civil war, a phase which almost every great country experienced.
    Plus there are 50% who live under US$2/day, thats 125millions, even when indonesia is stated as #15 of world’s biggest economy,
    oh boy, we DO have problems.

    1 thing i have to specifically point out,

    even with sooo many differing opinions and problems, most of us were united on protesting and requesting some explanation about this particular “rasa sayang” song,
    because that song is REALLY dear to our heart, almost all of us sincerely thought that it was from ambonese heritage.

    Like

  322. @bonar
    great Mathematic that you have given us (especially me) here. Yes I do believe in different opinion. It is too stupid for the Tourist department not to admit that its from Maluku and it is too “over reacted” to force the Malaysian goverment ( I am Malaysian sometimes disagree eith the goverment) to ask permission or to accused of stealing the song ; ). Or it is a huge problems here. If this is a robbery case , what or how much is the lost? and that Rasa Sayang song still can be used in Indonesia,Singapore or Brunei.

    The term of stealing here is like the Malaysian (plus the goverment)broke into the Indonesian goldsmith and the owner really suffering bankcruptcy right now at the moment.

    Malaysian and the goverment of Malaysia is two different subjects. I hope the same goes to the Indonesian and the goverment of Indonesia. I would think it is a “faith” for us to quarrel among each other since the era of confrontations. To me it is so special that its only happens between malaysia and Indonesia! ; ) never happen Indonesia vs Thai, or Malaysia vs Myanmmar. And to my prediction this will go on and on to our next generations if we passed the wrong idealogies between this two special of traditional enemies (mush tradisi or “musuh berbuyutan” as the Betawi’s Malay said)

    Well as mr unspun said I honestly could not find other interesting topic as hot as this. : )

    Like

  323. @Bonar: Rasa Sayange is no doubt originated from Ambon. But the MTB used Rasa Sayang Hey. Now we donot know whether Rasa Sayang Hey is a copy from Rasa Sayange, so the stealing accusation should have never been brought up in the first place…

    proving that Rasa Sayang Hey is a copy of Rasa Sayange is far more important than proving that Rasa Sayange belongs to Indonesia…why? by doing this, a stealing is proved…

    i know, its in ur beautiful hearts and youthful souls and its vital to be united but by not making any point is just plain not making any point man… Cheers BTW, id stopped making comment on Tommy…hehe No hard feelings 🙂

    Like

  324. @kamarul: “proving that Rasa Sayang Hey is a copy of Rasa Sayange is far more important than proving that Rasa Sayange belongs to Indonesia”

    ok now, that i agree. but like stated on unspun’s other article, a bigger problem doesnt diminish the original problem.

    “not making any point is just plain not making any point man”

    my original point is simple actually, why not use malay song instead?
    but then who am i to ask that

    then i change my mind, ok maybe u didnt mean to harm, lets put a disclaimer or something maybe stating that the song was originated from maluku, at least to satisfy our ambonese brothers.

    my next point is, there are probably underlying problems, lets think this through, who knows it will prevent future incidents.

    Like

  325. @bonar good kind of quntitative analysis that you haven given me. This will go on and on for the next generations.
    1.As for malaysian we do accept that Srivijaya is one of our early history. But I bet for the Indonesian ( may not be you) will say it is ours. You Malaysian do not have any identity at all.
    2.Sukarno’s syndrome still there. Saying the independence of Malaya is given. No fight at all. And too bad the history syllabus in Indonesia never recognise the neighbouring country.
    3. underlying problems…yes…the people who came Negeri Sembilan had a sad story how the Ahmad Yani’s troops attack them,rapes their girl just because they claimed the ownership of the land. But the republic deny that. And they have their new generations here in Malaysia.
    4. Tuanku Tambusai, Cut Nyak never fight for the republic they were fighting against the “Belanda kaffir” that time.
    Anyway who am I to challange the Indonesia history….; )

    Like

  326. @dolah kurdis
    LOL, yeah, i guess so…
    this has become chat room after all, and overstretched, my bad, sorry.

    those new points of yours(prove me wrong) are also a bit overstretched, but either you do that deliberately, or there is something u wanna tell me later, i will TRY to give my opinion on each of them. cmiiw

    1. The history of srivijaya have covered many many regions, it has influenced many many modern countries in terms of spirit and cultures.
    but to be honest, i really think it is thailand or myanmar which has more rights to claim as the historical continuation of srivijaya, but for that i need further research(fyi, im not really into history, i was an engineering student drop out).
    When the founding fathers of indonesia incorporated srivijaya and majapahit into our history and national thinking, they never meant they were only ours, as some people might misintrepret them,

    what they were trying to say was this, a unified nation was POSSIBLE even though the archipelago was separated by geographical and geocultural differences.
    It happened before, it can happen again.
    (i forgot where i read this polemics, but i remember reading those difficult old words,lol)

    and that statement by NO means was trying to negate srivijaya’s influence to your version of history, or trying to rob srivijaya from you.

    2. LOL, thats new to me… soekarno’s syndrome… i bet mr. incredible and elastigirl will appreciate this new information. 🙂

    Well… spot on, i never remembered our syllabus talked about malaysia, beside few paragraphs about konfrontasi (again hs was so long ago,cmiiw).

    normally, i would say:”move on to the next person, i dont wanna hear you, we already have our own problems”
    but since youre seeing me wearing soekarno’s symbols on my head, now i would say: enlighten me!

    what is exactly soekarno’s syndrome? what are the things that u consider as soekarno’s syndrome? how are they relevant to present day discourse?
    did you personally experienced this syndrome IRL (in real life)?

    If indonesians talked down about you on that matter, we probably just didnt know or didnt care about your history, we -were- just a bunch of ignorants.
    for that i sincerely am sorry.
    But i encourage you not to let us tear you down. it doesnt matter what we’re saying, you know yourself better than we do.

    Stigmatizing indonesians to a single definition is bad for your emotional well-being 🙂 relax… we cant really be all that bad, can we? 🙂

    however, i cant help miself, i need to ask this: is it becoz of that, you become ignorant about our complaints and whinings 🙂 on things like that infamous song?

    3. honestly, i never heard that. I encourage YOU, to write a book/report/blog about it, before the witnesses are all gone, or force YOUR government to protest or take actions. Just tone it down a little, so we can understand your points and not just your anger.
    it never occured to my mind the thought that an event was the underlying problem, i thought they were differences in conceptual matters.

    4. It amazed me that you know tuanku tambusai 🙂 what about tuanku rao? do u know him also? sisingamangaraja?
    ok nvm about rao and singa.
    I agree, they never fought for the republic, they fought sporadically for their own reasons and for their own regional independence, albeit against the same enemy,
    to us, indonesians, those are real facts too, we call it “fase terpecah belah” or “perjuangan bersifat kedaerahan” (i dunno how to translate it).

    want more? tuanku imam bonjol of minang fought against traditionalist, pangeran diponegoro of yogyakarta fought becoz of land dispute, kongsi cina of singkawang against high taxing, and many others fought for their own reasons.

    However, those same facts, even strengthen our national identity… our nationbuilding, when we realize, we had to unite.
    The reason those stories were told was to show our people that unified efforts are better options. The Republic was founded by recognizing their weakneses.

    for us, its a non problem.

    And for the last remark, i actually quite agree 🙂

    so, whats all these having to do with our polemic?

    Like

  327. (I shorten my name, bet u still can recognise me)

    Now we are learning Indonesia history! This is fun. I’m surprised dolah kurdis know so much. Didn’t know any Indonesia modern history were in any of Malaysia books. MC told lots of “stone age” stories but I always wondered what had happened after Srivijaya.

    So much as I knew (but could never undertand) that Malaysia government conveniently include all Muslim natives in Kepulauan Melayu/Nusantara as Malays but now only do I know that Indonesia are not only made by Malays, at least in Indonesia definition. I always thought Javanese, Bugis, Minangs, Achehnese, Balinese etc… were Malays too (although they may not be Muslim).

    Dear Bonar, you had just reminded me about the population ratio.
    Indonesia has almost 10x Malaysia population, it’s natural that Kamarul will face 10 persons attacking his comment not including his fellow Malaysian that can’t agree with him. (Cool down pal, just have to use you for example, ha ha) Kamarul, we are out-numbered!!! Err…. who else are Malaysian here ah? dollah kurdis… Shamsul Anuar… MC… Unspun(ex) … shanghai?…

    Averagely there are only 20% people in the world with above average IQ and less than 5% super intelligent. With 80% of people that has ordinary or below average IQ, it is no wonder why we always have to fight over so many issues rather than sit down, talk, understand each other, emphatise & tolerate, and come out with a win-win situation.
    And this thread, I think i somehow help us to increase our IQ! WHY? Coz we stopped arguing!! Ha ha ha ha!

    Someone said I self proclaim Hero… he he he, I want Hiro’s power of time manipulating so can go back time and find this guy that wrote this Rasa Sayang song and buy the copywrite from him, or maybe tell him to introduce himself as Malaysian, wahahahahaha (wait, I’ll need Eden’s power of persuasion!)

    Like

  328. UNSPUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want my comment posted!! Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please… Please…


    Restored, I hope. It helps is you keep comments short and do not include links. or if links spell it out. Akismet arrests anything with more than 2 links. This spam thingo is frustrating. Over the past few days there has been 1,600 plus spam. Gubrak!

    Like

  329. I wonder anyone would write a book about the history of ASEAN countries. Most that I know of now are generally modern histories. Hey, we also have civilisation up to 2 millenia ago but very hard to find information. Couldn’t be Srivijaya, Majapahit and the other ancient civilization here just vanished like the Mayas, or maybe sanked like the Atlantis? or we are Atlantis!!?

    Like

  330. I just read on Sunday Star about 2 weeks back that in Chemor, Perak, there was a Royal line that fled from Sumatra chased by Achenese I think. The got good deals with the British and stayed there ever since with their own King. I’ll post it here if I can still find that article.

    Like

  331. oooppsss…. my fault? sorry… ;p are we telepathically connected?

    gosh i was wrong, im not klingon, im vulcan! we’re both vulcan!

    Like

  332. @Vic.Ky.Ell

    Could it be that Akismet is having a relationship with ISA??? YOU ARE PROBABLY TRACED…

    You’d better watch out :))

    Like

  333. “terbawa kultur Konfrontasi terhadap Malaysia. Setiap bangsa yang memiliki “visi dunia” (negara adi daya) atau “visi regional” (negara “middle power”) cenderung memperlakukan satu atau lebih negara tetangganya yang lebih kecil”

    Most Indonesian will quote Sukarno’s clause “kita ini bangsa besar!”, “kita diinjak-injak”.”the most famous ever “GANYANG”!! I seem could not find any one form Indonesia that quote M.Hatta,Suharto,Tri Sutrisno,Sudomo,Harmoko, Ali Alattas,Habibi,Gus Dur even SBY, Teuku Umar, Imam Bonjol, Hamka,Alm Raja Inal Siregar, Marlon Doloksaribu, Jarindo Purba (since your name shows the relatives) ; )

    So @bonar here I am dolah kurdis give you the difiniton of Sukarno’s Syndrome.

    Like

  334. I donno man, I donno! Maybe I surfed porn too much they traced my IP!! 😀 Now they also found out I’m challenging them :p Must start learning anti-hacking before they trace my house. Ha ha ha ha. Now I nead Michael’s power to manipulate electrical devices. Does Akismet go under-table?

    So the minister finally talk wise? Funny that this come out after another monkey talk in the worldmedia (Al’Azeera)!

    So does this mean end of this issue? Is this thread finally closing. I’m just starting to have fun here!!

    Like

  335. If this ended, Kamarul would have a big lost. He’s such a fan of this Rasa Sayng debate.
    Unspun must come out something new to let keep Kamarul alive!! 😀

    BTW, where is he? He too took away by ISA?

    Like

  336. Unspun, I can find the article …. you have to access directly to their link below..

    Malaysia Akhirnya Akui Rasa Sayange Milik Indonesia
    Selasa, 13 November 2007, 08:38:29

    Jakarta, myRMnews. Pemerintah Malaysia akhirnya menyerah soal polemik lagu Rasa Sayange. Menteri Kebudayaan, Kesenian, dan Warisan Malaysia Rais Yatim telah bertemu dengan Menteri Kebudayaan dan Pariwisata Jero Wacik. Dalam pertemuan itu, Malaysia mengakui lagu Rasa Sayange sebagai lagu asli Indonesia.

    Ketua Umum DPP Persatuan Artis Penyanyi, Pencipta Lagu, dan Penata Musik Rekaman Indonesia (PAPPRI) Dharma Oratmangun mengatakan, dalam kunjungan ke Malaysia, lahir kesepahaman antara Jero Wacik dan Rais Yatim. “Persoalan lagu Rasa Sayange selesai. Secara de facto, Malaysia mengakui itu milik Indonesia,” kata Dharma kemarin (12/11).

    Pernyataan eksplisit Rais Yatim, menurut Dharma, disampaikan saat acara Temu Jembatan Budaya di Kuala Lumpur kemarin. Dharma merupakan salah seorang anggota delegasi kebudayaan Indonesia. “Oleh Pak Menteri (Menbudpar Jero Wacik) disampaikan bahwa sebagai negara bertetangga, semua persoalan agar diselesaikan dalam konteks masing-masing. Adapun lagu Rasa Sayange sudah bisa dipahami sebagai warisan yang dipunyai Indonesia,” jelas Dharma.

    Lagu tersebut memang hidup di masyarakat secara luas hingga ke Malaysia. Karena itu, rakyat Malaysia juga mengenal dengan baik lagu tersebut. “Jadi, tidak ada masalah lagi,” tegasnya.

    Jero Wacik saat dihubungi tadi malam membenarkan bahwa masalah lagu Rasa Sayange sudah tuntas. “Sebenarnya, tidak hanya masalah itu yang dibahas. Ada banyak hal,” kata Jero. Sayang, pembicaraan tidak berlanjut karena Jero sedang mengikuti jamuan makan malam.

    Sebelumnya, kementerian kebudayaan Malaysia mengakui telah lalai menggunakan lagu Indonesia lainnya. Yakni, lagu Tiar Ramon karya musikus Minang, yang digunakan tarian delegasi Malaysia pada Asia Festival 2007 di Osaka.

    Indonesia tidak akan memperkarakan lagu dan kesenian yang dipakai Malaysia. Sebab, Indonesia dan Malaysia masih serumpun. Hanya, Indonesia meminta, jika Malaysia menggunakan kesenian Indonesia, harus diumumkan kepada publik bahwa itu berasal dari Indonesia.

    Di Malaysia, selain menghadiri Temu Jembatan Budaya, Jero Wacik membuka Indonesia Trend (Trade, Tourism, and Investment) Expo 2007 di Kuala Lumpur. Itu merupakan pameran produk-produk ekspor Indonesia ke Malaysia. jpnn

    Source: http://www.myrmnews.com/indexframe.php?url=situsberita/index.php?pilih=lihat_edisi_website&id=46461

    Like

  337. Dear Dollah Kurdis, in that case, we Malaysian also got this Mahathir initiated Malaysia Boleh Syndrome leh, ha ha. I guess the whole world already knew!!

    I personally find that this Malaysia Boleh thing is more superficial than actually serving the mindset of making a better country. I mean, why on earth (space! technically) that a Malaysian should show the world how to do Teh-tarik or play “five-stones” in the Angkasawan project. They might as well sing Rasa Sayang!! Wahahahahahahahah

    Like

  338. why are you bother whether we want to call Malaysia boleh. whether our astronouts wants to show teh tarik in space. that is only side show to entertain our children about science and what can be done when you are in space. behind that our Dr Shukor conducted research on behalf of Japan goverment on crystalisation on protein , another research on behalf of European Union and our own research on cancer cell . do you have no other thing to do despite complaining about what we have done and intend to do. this is the mentality of jealous people. it is our money and we never ask you a single cents to fund this project. we can do what we want with our money. period

    Like

  339. Huhu wow nearly 400 posts aledy…uiks although im not here for a while, these guys really try to poke me haha. so busy lah, im in medical posting now and the staffnurses and specialists are like hell-guards 🙂

    well on rais yatim’s statement, i must congratulate him for admitting the song Rasa Sayange originated from Ambon, of course, nobody denies. But the word ‘originated’ is not syn wit ‘belongs’ and as far as i know the song does not belong to indonesia unless proven otherwise.

    Meanwhile, the MTB used Rasa Sayang Hey, NOT Rasa Sayange. Its Hey lah they used NOT e, so why suddenly wanna the MTB to state that the e originated from Ambon, it doesnt make sense, unless they used e…

    didnt i said so on the Osaka song dispute, if u can prove that its urs, ppl can just admit their mistakes right?

    Like

  340. I have every right to complaint about the ethics of my country!! It’s FUN!! And no one can stop me!! WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

    Everyone knows our Angkasawan went up there FOC. It’s not even by our own effort, so what so proud about it? Just like how Malaysia bought the sit for Alex in F1. What a disgrace!!

    Hmmm…. maybe I am jealous. Jealous about other country that has better technology than us. Jealous that other country has better financial status. Jealous that our currency is so weak. Jealous that I didn’t get the PTPTN loan (don’t even bother to check if I spelled right).

    But should I? I’m driving a Kancil that no other country has, so uniquely Malaysian (borrowed the slogan from Singapore, haha). We have proton that can’t compete in international level, so special. MAS serving cold food, u don’t get this everywhere!

    Who in the world don’t complaint about some of his/her own country policies? Bhutan, maybe. I wonder how it’s like living up there.

    Like

  341. Just don’t burn Malaysia flag will do. OK? Fellow friends in Nusantara?

    Think about that idiot that burnt his own country flag in Terengganu. I have a gun, I’ll shoot him. TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  342. Oh… condolence to the angkasawan family for losing his brother.

    Just to clarify, I’m not against the Angkasawan project. Just the idea of doing teh-tarik on space? That’s something you don’t need to boost, expecially when it’s not your own transport. You want to do that in Measat-3 I don’t care.

    Like

  343. It’s a FREE ride! A FREE RIDE!! U get it? U don’t do stupid things in a FREE RIDE!!!

    Technically, the water (TEH!!!) that is exposed will form a (or many) liquid sphere(s) floating everywhere which could be hazardous to the electrical equipments in space.

    You can’t play 5-stone in 0 gravity!! the stone will just go up, it won’t come down, if you can figure where is up and down in the first place.

    That just show how little knowledge our people has about space!!

    Like

  344. Ahh..ini bukan hanya sekedar berdebat soal ini lagu aslinya milik siapa..atau makanan ini berasal dari mana.. atau kesenian ini adalah milik siapa..

    Saya tau, di sekolah dasar di Malaysia tidak ada pelajaran sejarah, makanya rakyatnya seperti buta dan arogan tanpa arah.

    Tapi seharusnya bangsa Malaysia menghargai dan menghormati hak kekayaan kesenian, kebudayaan dan kekayaan intelektual dari bangsa lain.

    Dan diam bukan berarti mengalah.. tapi demi menjaga sopan santun dari kami yang tidak kalian punya.

    Untuk Malaysia, mulai sekarang coba peliharalah rasa malu.

    Like

  345. Kamarul ok let’s now sing
    rasa hey hey hey
    rasa hey hey hey hey hey hey
    heyyy hey hey hey hey jauh hey hey hey hey hey
    well like @bonar says if we had 1 cap like Betsy here in Malaysia I must times 10 Betsy in Indonesia. well I agree. The ministry admitted it is belongs to Indonesia..I have no problem at all. Well known let wait n see what else that they going to claimed! lol

    Like

  346. Wow, another patriotic but lazy comment!! Pardon me my Indonesia friends but this comment from Betsy really shows either she doesn’t understand English – so she didn’t read through the whole thread, or she’s just as ignorant like those people she accused of.

    In case anyone says it again, we do have history but which education in the world teaches history of another country unless they shared the same one??

    Or anyone like to enlighten me that Indonesia school teaches Malaysian history?

    BTW, I doubt any school textbook in the world gives a complete picture of the history especially it is against the ruling poeple agenda.

    Just like I said, our racial clash 513 was never mentioned in our text. Or did I missed that chapter? dolah, kamarul and anyone else in Malaysia, do u remember it if it’s in our Sejarah text? or did it mentioned anything about Indonesia?

    Like

  347. now I agree with @ralph. now Vic.Kyle I am not a Dr M worshipper neither hate him.
    1. What is wrong with Malaysia Boleh? Most Indonesian make fun of it including you…he he heneed not to mentioned Truly Asia.
    2. If the astronaut wanted to play 7 stones or kites (much easier) no gravity at all what it has to do with Indonesian?
    3. Malaysia Truly Asia slogan? Indonesia used to have “Lets go archipelagos” not even one Malaysian write a protest.
    4. Why bother about a trip and research by the astronaut sice there is not a single Rupiah been asked from Indonesian. Well it is not FOC part of it, as a tax payer its from my income tax that they taken to pay the Russian.
    5. Do you think I got that PTPTN?please la.. dont be so selfish.Thank god I have 3 elders (sisters and brother) who willing to sponsored me for my 1st degree. Now I deep insdie somewhere I felt I have to do some sort of pay back to my nephew or niece….

    Like

  348. @dollah kurdis
    ok, i agree we quoted Soekarno many times.
    But that doesnt mean all of us agree with all of his ideas.

    At the early times of the republic, maybe, he DID have great oratory skill to give us conviction about our nation.

    But after that, he is just another dictator to me, and u know what dictators do when they cant handle internal affairs? they make war. Konfrontasi, to me is a well known historical mistake.

    and i cannot possibly be able to quote an introvert, a power thirsty generallisimo albeit with good administration skills, a sour general, another sour general, a bullshitter,

    well i respect ali alatas, but never heard his oratories,

    a smiling technocrat who cant speak indonesian well,

    I can quote some of gusdur’s, but hes not yet worthy to be quoted on nationbuilding,
    a president who can sing but hesitate to administrate, fighters, writer,governor, and bunch of yet unknowns. And no i dunno those unknowns. 🙂

    I dont think, quoting on 1 aspect but disagreeing on many other aspects, can be defined as a syndrome, its just the lack of having enough intellectuals, or probly we have moved on in terms of nationhood.
    but this will change anyway, in 20 years many will quote that creep named Bonar.. lol 🙂 just kidding.

    And like vic pointed out, i think every country has their own way to build their national identity.

    @vic: on flag burning, i can only say sorry, we will try our best to prevent that to happen in the future.
    And, OH… the fact that u mention bhutan cracked me up. hehehe

    @Betsy: Sudahlah…. enough with the taunting.you got what you want already, jangan besar kepala, meledak nanti.

    Like

  349. @dollah:
    quote:
    “4. Why bother about a trip and research by the astronaut sice there is not a single Rupiah been asked from Indonesian”

    I dont see any relevance bringing rupiah and indonesian on your reply towards your fellow malaysian.

    You might not know, in the past we tried to do what you have sucessfully done now. in 1985, we had pratiwi sudharmono prepared for a challenger flight in 1986. but things didnt worked out, as we already know what happened to challenger.

    I congratulate you to be able to do, what we cant.
    I have no right to criticize, so i will not.

    Like

  350. Pratiwi Sudharmono, Ph.D is a scientist and with NASA/Challenger, she had an actual mission, thus more than just a ‘space participant’.

    Like

  351. @kemsey: but she didnt took off, anyway. its not that big of a deal. dont criticize things that is not our right to do so.

    Like

  352. wow…i wondered how this ‘space’ issue being shot down to earth in this thread. somebody must use the latest Chinese missile that hit the satellite haha

    @Bonar: really appreciate that attitude…good man Cheers 🙂

    Like

  353. Dear Tried to Be honest.

    Different country has different values, history, values. It is good to remember those who fought to preserve the sovereignty of the nation. It is the manifastation of civilized society.

    However, such attitude must not include condemning other country. In Malaya’s case, British graciously left after realizing it could not hold anymore. As for India, it was the most prized possesion of British Empire. It was termed ” Jewel of the Crown”. The British representative was called “Viceroy”.

    British gained ( financially) a lot from India. However, Britain was streched to its limit by the War. There was no way it could hold on to the empire. War simply confirmed one undeniable fact. That British supremacy had come to its end, replaced by uSA.

    But at least the British knew when to leave. Therefore, it left with pomp and splendour, unlike many other European powers which were forced to leave , often in disgrace like Dutch in Indonesia or France in Algeria and Vietnam.

    Like

  354. @dollah

    Just curious… Is your father an indonesian troop who landed in Johor? It seems you know a lot about indonesia… may be it’s part of your effort to trace your ancestry 🙂

    Like

  355. LOL @Vic’s references to those characters, i just read them. You do know Sylar will be playing Spock (that legendary vulcan), dont u?

    btw, second season of heroes is not as good as the first one, i watched first 6 episodes, they bored me to death.

    @kamarul: thankyou. you are a fine gentleman too, thoughtful and resourceful.

    |\/|, peace and prosperous

    Like

  356. Yes, I remember the day the Challenger accident, and I thought to myself ‘there goes our Pratiwi’s chance’. Btw, I’m not criticizing Malaysia’s space efforts, I am just reiterating from Malaysian blogs like jeffooi.com for this and other news updates from jiran.

    Like

  357. @kemsey: ugh! you’re old 🙂 LOL, j/k sorry… heheheh

    I was like… only 6, when that happened, i didnt get any idea of all the fuss..

    Like

  358. Finnally…. It got concluded.
    Rais Yatim who was so proudly saying “Rasa Sayange’ song is Malaysia’s.
    Now stupidly admitted that the song belongs to Indonesia.
    Like the old saying… “Like a dog who eats his own puke”

    I’d like to appologize to Unspun and everyone who had participated in this thread, if anything that I had written had hurted you.
    I just tried to enrich us all, as I thank you all for having enriched me.

    But the end is so happy…. Rasa Sayang is Indonesia’s.

    It may not be the end, it even may be the beginning…
    The beginning to us all to learn respecting other’s culture.

    Good luck with the MTB campaign, I hope millions will visit Malaysia.
    But if in the 1st place MTB did not use the song, maybe I also would come to Malaysia again.
    But now I have lost my appetite to re-visit Malaysia (and so have many of Indonesians).
    But don’t worry… I don’t say for all Indonesian people, just a little bit of them. And for sure, I speak for myself.

    Peace for the both country.
    Now I am trying to re-love Malaysia (though I know it’ll be very hard), just like the spirit of the song.

    Rasa sayange…rasa sayang sayange…
    Lihat Malaysia jauh rasa sayang-sayange…

    Wassalamu’alaikum…

    Like

  359. @Tommy: He didnt say Rasa Sayang Hey/E belongs to Malaysia. What he said was indonesia cannot prove that Rasa Sayang Hey belongs to Indonesia lah man…

    He admitted Rasa Sayange originated from Ambon, he didnt say it belongs to Indonesia man. Anyway, this Rasa Sayange is not Rasa Sayang Hey being used by MTB, they have got different lyrics lah man.

    But um nobody says Rasa Sayang Hey belongs to Malaysia and of course it does not belongs to Indonesia… Cheers Man 🙂

    Like

  360. I dont see any relevance bringing rupiah and indonesian on your reply towards your fellow malaysian.

    @bonar I dont see either, why Vic.Kyle brought it up here!?PTPTN some more, you guys dont even know what it is…
    the main Issue is Rasa Sayang…the relevance issue is the value differences between the two countries. Malaysian term and terminologies vs Indonesian kind of term & terminologies… like the analogy that you’ve made before (hmm wonder our former teacher teaches writting always comment focus! focus! )
    Malaysian : explain wxyz
    Indonesian : say no its cdefg…
    on and on and on….

    Like

  361. @dollah: but vic is malaysian, no?

    no point bringing up indonesians there…

    he/she was proving a point, that as a malaysian he/she can criticize his/her govt.

    we, indonesian, tried to stay away from your arguments, and started a nostalgic chat instead :p, right kemsey?

    @kemsey:hmmm considering your age, were you involved on 1998 demonstrations to bring down soeharto?
    I was…

    Like

  362. Just to poke Tommy Joe (he he, heating up the discussion as Kamarul would like!) Stupid people says stupid things, so maybe he’s being stupid again. Ha ha ha ha!!

    BTW, He says originated from Ambon! Ambon wasn’t an Indonesia state when the song spreaded. So, technically, he’s not contradicting his earlier claim, still stupid although! Kah Kah Kah

    Aiya, Tommy Joe, why so like that (this phrase learnt from the Singaporean. Sue me!! :p )! If you dislike a country, you should come over and proves it!! Not like when people tells you A, u believes A! Come la, I treat you bak-kut-teh if u can eat pork.

    Like

  363. Yah Yah, I’m Malaysian, PROUD of it, even though sometimes it does stupid things but it’s still part of my family. You see, we have to forgive and tolerate our family members mistake. But doesn’t mean can not complain right????

    Like

  364. Ah sorry man rakan Tommy Joe, I just noticed your ending! So rude of me inviting u to pork. We go for Banana Leaf Rice from the Indians, it’s vegetarian, so no halal issue. OK OK?

    (How can that greeting slipped my eye, so embarrassing!!)

    Like

  365. Dear Dollah,
    thanks for reminding, my teacher always says my karangan out of tajuk. It happens here again. But it’s still fun what!! (Maybe that’s why I can’t get a credit for my Bahasa Malaysia. Oh dear)

    But I was thinking, since the tittle is Rasa Not So Sayang, we should spread some Sayang (Love) in here mah!!

    Like

  366. Dear Shamsul, LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!! Malaysia considered lucky to have a peaceful independence process. Anyway, the British still can’t stop minding their own business and always tries to interfere our Malaysian ways. They still have that above us kind of thinking. (Although they still are actually…. :p )

    Like

  367. UNSPUN!! I think copy and paste is not a good idea too. Akismet doesn’t like glue I guess.

    Dear dollah, Akismet/ISA screening my mail to you. Please claim from UNSPUN!

    Like

  368. Dear Bonar
    I didn’t know. Sylar is Spock? That’s fun. He’s so adorable when he’s not munching people’s brain. Maybe he should learn from Spock, just do the V sign and touch people’s neck instead.

    I haven’t even complete the part 2 of Heroes but have you check out the graphic novels of Heroes?

    Like

  369. Wakakaka @ Vic! Oh my god, I love Heroes too, should we discuss Heroes instead? :). I heard Adam is actually Peter’s father?

    Like

  370. @vic: graphic novel? yes2 i have, i have them printed in glossy photo paper, they are so rich in colors, made me droll…

    so u havent finished season one part 2 yet? or were you talking about season 2? season 2 is a downer.

    Like

  371. @All: Dei! You guys talking about heroes and Spock in this thread? Obviously this thread has run its course. You guys would be better off chatting on Skype.

    I’m closing down comments for this thread. Its been a good run, thanks for all your time and passion but all good things must pass. This thread is now officially closed.

    Like

Comments are closed.